Date: 2005-12-08 11:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tbonestg.livejournal.com
Eh. I'd say that there was probably some inevitability in having some asshole or another taking over Iraq.

Date: 2005-12-08 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stupiddumbpanda.livejournal.com
It's pretty much inevitable that some asshole is in charge of every country on the face of the earth. You don't get to the top by being a pushover.

Date: 2005-12-08 11:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tbonestg.livejournal.com
Yeah, but in Iraq, everyone who doesn't win dies.

Date: 2005-12-09 12:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stupiddumbpanda.livejournal.com
Well, now that's just silly. Everyone who disagrees dies. Saddam couldn't very well go killing everyone, because then he wouldn't be in control of anyone. And something tells me he wouldn't like that very much.

Saddam was just doing what he had to do to stay on top. Much like America is doing what it has to do to stay on top. It's just politics as usual.

Date: 2005-12-09 08:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tbonestg.livejournal.com
Let me clarify...

Everyone who doesn't win a bid for leadership dies.

Date: 2005-12-09 08:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] psych0squirrel.livejournal.com
There is quite a difference actaully, we have controversy. Just think how much of a fuss we would make if the president decided to take a gun and shoot people who supported Democrats. We have more expectations of justice then people had come to expect in Iraq, controversy is a way that people protect themselves, when things are not shocking that says something about the environment people live in.

In that the Iraqis are upset, they are showing long term health- if they did not care at all we wouldn't hear about it. They are now getting annoyed enough to go vote! Good! Hopefully we can draw down the public presence sooner rather then later. It will take awhile before they can completely protect themselves, but we definately need to give them a bigger role because we're really pissing everyone off at this time. Creating infastructure is really quite complicated and then you need to convince everyone to use it! This is going a lot better then it would in somewhere they did not have a desire for self-rule. It's unfortunate that there are so many fanatics interfering and confusing the issue. There seem to be a lot of people who are willing to try the political process- all we ever here are snatches, we hear about the violence but not enough about any other type of changes.

Date: 2005-12-09 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] debergerac.livejournal.com
well true, muslim-majority countries and ruthless asshole leaders go hand in hand ..

Date: 2005-12-09 08:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] psych0squirrel.livejournal.com
It probably has more to do with dictatorships there is nothing inherently wrong with the religeoun although sometimes perhaps the culture, muslim-americans join the girl scouts instead of practicing suicide terrorism. There is quite a lot of muslims who would prefer to live in a Democracy, they just aren't the ones in power. Don't confuse a lack of education for inherent evil, they have different social classes and educational groupings as well.

Date: 2005-12-10 04:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] debergerac.livejournal.com
there is nothing inherently wrong with the religeoun although sometimes perhaps the culture

how do you explain the universal lack of rational governments in four dozen muslim countries across differing cultures ??

Date: 2005-12-10 06:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] psych0squirrel.livejournal.com
Well. First of all. I am assuming you mean the Middle East, North Africa, Asia a bit, and perhaps some muslim majority countries- in Eastern Europe?

These are not regions of the world with good governments. When I judge muslims I base my experiances on normal people, not just the people who are stuck uneducated in dictatorships. They might be a reliegeon with a bit of culture change happening, but its harder for individuals to make a difference over established elites, and harder still for us to hear about it this far away. All such things take time. For that matter. I could say the same thing about our religeous right (except luckily they don't have as much power yet as they'd like) or even the extreme left, you know the people who thinks Bush made a pact with Hitler's ghost or something. It's really not all that hard to find stupid people, the jihadist don't actually have to strap a bomb to themselves, all they need to do is find one idiot- or someone whose desparate and promise to feed his family after he dies. It's a nasty cycle.

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