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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2014-06-21 05:10 pm (UTC)Obviously, instutitionalizing bad structures is bad. There are good structures that can be supported through official, govt support.
You are a FUCKING MORON.
SLAVERY CREATED A PERSISTENT UNDERCLASS. Not the legislation since then.
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Date: 2014-06-21 05:14 pm (UTC)Such as?
SLAVERY CREATED A PERSISTENT UNDERCLASS. Not the legislation since then.
So you see nothing in government policies over the last 150 years that has created the persistent underclass. Nothing at all, it's just slavery. Am I reading you right, because that's a fairly negative claim you're making about a group of people that I don't think you intended to make. If you're arguing that the simple existence of slavery 150 years ago is keeping people down today, what does that say about the last few generations?
I would never want to imply that. I'd rather put the blame where it belongs - on governments passing Jim Crow laws, on governments putting in policies that cause employers and the public to question the credentials of minorities, of governments passing laws to combat racism that end up simply shunting it into the background instead, and so on.
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Date: 2014-06-21 05:21 pm (UTC)Education is, by and large, the way out of poverty. There are educated people in poverty, but far fewer. By denying quality education to minorities, it has kept them in poverty.
Slavery has LONG TERM effects that you seem all too happy to swish under the rug and go "but what about the past few generations! surely you cannot say they are poor because of their parents" well, actually, I can. Long term poverty is a thing. When your parents don't have an education, they cannot give you one--and the local school is funded by local taxes, and cause everyone around you is poor, the school is poor, so the school provides a low-quality education.
Oh, I see things like the war on drugs helping to continue the persistent underclass. I am guessing you are unfamiliar with the WEB DuBois writing on the "Inevitability of the Negro Criminal" --and he was writing after slavery had ended--but again LONG TERM RESULTS of slavery.
Now, without being familiar with what he is saying, you might think he was racist, by the title of the piece. Anyone familiar with him will know better. I don't know if you do know him though.
Let me ask you: do you deny that slavery has long term negative impacts for the black community?
If you admit they exist, why don't you go ahead and name a few of those long term impacts.
Date: 2014-06-21 05:28 pm (UTC)Okay, but you're still talking about generations ago, not how the more recent laws and legislation have created the institutionalized underclass.
Education is, by and large, the way out of poverty. There are educated people in poverty, but far fewer. By denying quality education to minorities, it has kept them in poverty.
Minorities have not been denied education in generations. This is just not at all a reasonable statement.
I am guessing you are unfamiliar with the WEB DuBois writing on the "Inevitability of the Negro Criminal" --and he was writing after slavery had ended--but again LONG TERM RESULTS of slavery.
I'm familiar, it's been a while since I read it assuming you mean the "Some Notes on Negro Crime" or something similar. He was writing after slavery was ended, yes, but it was while people who were still victims of slavery were alive. It's, again, not an entirely fair claim.
Let me ask you: do you deny that slavery has long term negative impacts for the black community?
Sure. I think the real impacts today, and of the last generation or two, are less related to slavery and more related to the government causes of continued inequality and to the solutions they put in place to fix it.
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Date: 2014-06-22 12:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-22 12:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-22 12:22 pm (UTC)It doesn't matter that you disagree. You're still wrong.
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Date: 2014-06-22 12:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-22 12:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-22 12:25 pm (UTC)The "culture of dependency" is real. It's a creation of the government, the same one that creates that underclass that you think I'm wrong about. But you have nothing to counter it with, which is probably more telling. Just the same type of mind reading that you're not any better at than others here.
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Date: 2014-06-22 08:49 pm (UTC)And there is no culture of dependency. People don't wake up in the morning and think "I'm going to sit around and do nothing for my life." People actually want to move forward in life, try to do more than just survive. There's is psych research to support this.
Further, too many of those you assume are so dependent are already working. This is well known by now. Hence a firestorm over upping the minimum wage.
Further, not everyone is capable of being productive. Most of those receiving our social safety net frayed bits are elderly, disabled, and children.
Further, I question the amount of "opportunity" present in the system. All the money went to the top, yet I never hear you bitch about corporate welfare.
What's more telling is how you think about and see your fellow man - in such an awful fashion. It's what makes me feel so sorry for you, as I've said before.
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Date: 2014-06-22 08:58 pm (UTC)I think it's overstated by some, but it is real.
Further, too many of those you assume are so dependent are already working. This is well known by now. Hence a firestorm over upping the minimum wage.
The firestorm about the minimum wage is not related to the dependency issue. The firestorm about the minimum wage is about the best way to handle those wages and the benefits/drawbacks to increasing it.
Further, not everyone is capable of being productive. Most of those receiving our social safety net frayed bits are elderly, disabled, and children.
And those aren't the people we're talking about.
Further, I question the amount of "opportunity" present in the system. All the money went to the top, yet I never hear you bitch about corporate welfare.
You mustn't be listening much to me in those areas, then. I'm generally opposed to all welfare.
What's more telling is how you think about and see your fellow man - in such an awful fashion. It's what makes me feel so sorry for you, as I've said before.
You have not demonstrated enough knowledge about my feelings about my fellow man to say this.
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Date: 2014-06-23 08:01 am (UTC)I only go off what you say. We've been through this song and dance many times. You actually believe in the myth of the culture of dependency. This myth engenders contempt for the poor across society - makes it humiliating to use food stamps at the grocery store, for example. You are complicit in that, and it makes you look ethically bankrupt from my perspective.
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Date: 2014-06-23 11:40 am (UTC)You don't. You go off what you perceive.
You actually believe in the myth of the culture of dependency.
It's not a myth, however. We've fostered a situation where people are absolutely reliant on the government, and are proud to do so. It's not just the poor.
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Date: 2014-06-23 12:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-23 02:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-23 03:59 pm (UTC)Well, I'm not sure how to dance this dance then. Not sure whether to laugh or cry.
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Date: 2014-06-24 03:00 pm (UTC)