Political Cartoons

If you've nothing to hide, then you've nothing to worry about! Unless, of course, someone at the NSA takes a fancy to you, or you annoy someone who works at the NSA...

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If every person who chose to make phone calls to their representative or walk around and protest spent even an hour volunteering for a local politician who's running against the NSA stuff this week, we'd see change.

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Totally with you, Jeff! So glad to see you're finally coming around in a bipartisan effort to support Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)!

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I'm actually not totally against Wyden, all things considered.

With that said, there are a lot more Constitutional amendments they could go about caring about as much as the fourth for me to consider fully supporting them.

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Based on what you're saying here, your earlier comment about seeing change seems unlikely. If you don't care enough, should other people?

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I will be working very hard on the elections this fall, I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

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yes-justice.livejournal.com

I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

I think its this:

bdj: spent even an hour volunteering for a local politician who's running against the NSA stuff this week

msflux: support Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR)

BDJ: there are a lot more Constitutional amendments they could go about caring about as much as the fourth for me to consider fully supporting them

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Yeah, the point of the comment was about productive use of one's time.

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So your call to action is for other people, got it.

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See my other comment for you.

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I will be working very hard on the elections this fall

To put more Republicans in office so they can continue not working? Seems counterproductive or was this not the other comment you were referring to.

Why is Paul Ryan (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/11/paul-ryan-debt-ceiling-vote_n_4770056.html) voting against spending for the budget the GOP House passed?

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I'll be working for republicans who will be providing am alternative to the error laden administration we've been saddled with, yes.

As for Paul Ryan, I'm not too interested in defending him. I'm glad he voted correctly today.

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I'm glad he voted correctly today.

You're ridiculous. The American right is a caricature in its modern incarnation.

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And why am I ridiculous this time? We need spending cuts, not debt ceiling increases.

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So you say, unconvincingly. Ryan voted against funding the very same budget deal he co-authored.

Petty games.

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And I'm not defending Paul Ryan's budget vote. He's not against funding, in any regard, according to this vote - just the debt ceiling hike.

Your anger is really telling lately. I hope things are okay with you, in all seriousness. I remember when I was this angry and took it out here, it wasn't fun.

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Politics is frustrating. It wasn't that long ago that Democrats and Republicans would actually vote in favor of the same bills, not following lock-step with their party but instead with their consciences. Now everything that's done is all about making the other side look bad and obstructing and proving that government doesn't work. Until they get back in power and then the same things they were against mysteriously evaporate.

George W Bush increased the debt ceiling 7 times. This is #7 for Obama. Pretending that this is some radical policy or that cutting spending can be done without bipartisanship is ridiculous.

Personally I'll be fine once 2013's unresolved business stops dragging into 2014. I'm about to move again, which always improves my disposition. And you're likely right about the anger, it's overlapping into other areas at the moment.

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Well, I sincerely wish you the best. Politics matters, it's why there's passion, and it's crappy when the rest of stuff bleeds into it. I hear ya.

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Thank you. I've had to retain a lawyer to deal with a situation where a business I managed was sold and we were all fired without being paid banked overtime. It's been a nasty, drawn-out mess. Hopefully soon to draw to a close.

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Good luck.

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peristaltor.livejournal.com

Hell with that; we need a different way to create money.

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Start selling off bullshit mountain for fertiliser.

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trog.livejournal.com

Right. Voting will fix it. Obama campaigned on transparency and limiting all this bullshit. He's made it worse. So you have no guarantees.

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Yup, I cannot imagine either the Democrats or Republicans really backing off of this.
Only a Third Party that is focused on the issue could do so, and the chances of that
are pretty zilch. But I cannot imagine any government that would refrain from using such
capacity - good policing and all that. Orwell knew what he was about.

So, just be good. :)

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good policing

Wait, you mean fascist totalitarian police-state, right?

So, just be good. :)

My subject line was satirical. Jesus fuck.

"Whether that means organizing to set up a union at work, to challenge new abortion laws that are happening in your state, there is no reason why government should be surveilling this activity. And historically we know that when they collect activity and surveil this activity, it is used against activists all the time."

~ Gabriella Coleman, Wolfe Chair in Scientific and Technological Literacy at McGill University

Edited Date: 2014-02-12 04:19 am (UTC)

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The best satire has more than a little truth in it.

And I didn't mean to suggest that such a program
can be perfectly tailored against evil terrorists. I
understand there has to be a certain level of abuse.

I am not happy about this development, but I do
think it is a part of the modern world.

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The best satire has more than a little truth in it.

No, there really is no "truth" to that satirical statement, unless of course the observer is a selfish, short-sighted halfwit.

I understand there has to be a certain level of abuse.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

I do think it is a part of the modern world.

What a cop-out statement. You know what's also part of the modern world? Child soldiers and gang rape.

Of course, now American citizens who are NOT SUSPECTED of wrongdoing are having ALL ELECTRONIC & TELEPHONE COMMUNICATION along with their metadata COLLECTED AND SURVEILLED. But who cares!! It's just part of the modern world and we all gots to be willing to submit to a certain level of abuse because 9/11. /sarcasm

Edited Date: 2014-02-12 04:37 am (UTC)

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At least there's a chance the world may outgrow child soldiers fairly soon, since they presumably make bad fighters, and as the developing world gets richer, they can stop the practice.

I am not saying that protest is silly or useless. If there were no protests, I suspect the government would only become more emboldened and transgressive. Right now, they know that a lot of Americans are focused and aggrieved, and they are watching the government even as they are being watched (although the government can do it more effectively).

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I am still awestruck over your "just be good" statement.

Just, seriously.... That kind of argument is just sad and shocking.

Edited Date: 2014-02-12 04:40 am (UTC)

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My original formulation to Trog was a joke.
Note the smiley face - my own dark irony.

I think you are a little too excited over the issue
and are quick to find breaches for attack.

But I really am not your enemy.

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See, in this very community and in the very recent past, you've made pro mass surveillance statements and argued that whistleblowers like Manning & Snowden should be targeted. If this were not the case, I would have immediately assumed you were being ironic.

Now, I'm really not so sure anymore. I react the way I do when you make these comments because I feel like you should know better, since you align yourself with the Left. And your submissiveness to (if not outright support of) failed policies within your own party frustrates me to no end.

Edited Date: 2014-02-12 04:56 am (UTC)

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I understand. On this issue, and in your posts on it, I have not been the purest liberal. I don't know about ever being pro-mass surveillance, as much as I have tried to take what I would call a realist position on it, but I do lean on the side of those who suspect that Snowden may be criminally liable. (I am not as familiar with the Manning case). Snowden may have had a righteous case to make, but I don't know if he pursued it wisely. I think it is too soon to have a final verdict on Snowden, in terms of history - good guy or misguided transgressor?

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As often happens, you edited your comment before I posted my reply to the original comment. Your new comment includes: "And your submissiveness to (if not outright support of) failed policies within your own party frustrates me to no end."

I do not know what you mean? What party do you have in mind? What failed policies am I submissive or celebratory of?

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Democratic Party. Mass surveillance, overseas war, and prosecution of whistleblowers.

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I suppose I do generally align with the Democrats in debates, but that is largely because the other side of the question is taken by the Republicans. I don't place much stock in Third Parties, since they are fairly excluded in our system and are not particularly relevant. But I don't personally identify with the Democrats, though I will vote for them, if only as a counter-measure to the Republicans.

We've talked about mass surveillance enough. If I were big on overseas wars, I would have been a Mitt Romney man, but as with mass surveillance, I do try to be realistic. Just saying, "No war!" does not seem very meaningful to me. As for whistleblowers, that label begs the question. Snowden is, in part, a whistleblower, but again, he may not be as innocent as you understand him to be.

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Just saying "No war!" does not seem very meaningful to me

I'm not even sure what you mean by this. Who said this? If that's all you're getting from the anti-war movement, you're really not paying attention. I recommend starting here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

May not be as innocent...

Who said Snowden was innocent? That's not what his supporters are arguing here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/opinion/edward-snowden-whistle-blower.html

Edited Date: 2014-02-12 05:42 pm (UTC)

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I'm just addressing the way that I imagine our community can seem to outsiders, as being appreciably further left than perhaps 70% of Americans, and hence can seem like idealistic peaceniks, Regarding Snowden, in particular, I am surprised to hear this acknowledgement of his culpability. Maybe we just bring out the extremes in our beliefs when we debate, but I think one can be forgiven for having the impression that you believed that, far from being culpable,he should be canonized as a saint. If I was mistaken in that perception, I am glad to be corrected.

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Are you seriously asking me to confirm that I don't think Snowden should be canonized as a saint?

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No. I wasn't asking anything - seriously or humorously.

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As someone who has been potentially spied upon by a foreign government, I thank Snowden for his sacrifice. Pity our government are more against him than even yours is :/

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Cripes, what does your government want to do to him? Shoot him?

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/03/edward-snowden-kill-list-joke-us-intelligence-chiefs

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From the Attorney General, George Brandis (Senator Ludlam is a Green senator who has supported the Feb 11 thing):

“Senator Ludlam, you celebrate and make a hero of this man who, through his criminal dishonesty and his treachery to his country, has put lives, including Australian lives, at risk. I wonder how you can sit in this Parliament and hold your head up high when you celebrate a man who, through criminal conduct and treachery, has put Australian lives at risk.”

I'm would call him Captain Hyperbole, but that would give him a higher rank than he deserves in the Hyperbolic Party.

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In general, you seem to be afraid of questioning the party, even if the party is supporting misguided policies. This worries me. And frustrates me. A lot.

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Has the Jeff Goldblum thing hit your facebook?

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There's a Goldblum thing hitting Facebook? I've had a stupid crush on Jeff Goldblum since I was just a young teen, so whatever this thing is, I'm excited about it.

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