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[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Comments

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Who got his ass kicked?

[hookemnick.livejournal.com]

*sigh Where are you going with this?

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Where were you going with your own question?

[hookemnick.livejournal.com]

Most people seem to suggest that because George Zimmerman got out of his car, he was right to have his ass handed to him. I disagree.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

By getting out of his car he instigated the encounter. Why does Zimmmerman have the right to protect himself from Martin but Martin doesn't have the right to protect himself from a stalker?

[hookemnick.livejournal.com]

I don't feel that TM was protecting himself. Most reasonable people protect themselves by leaving the scene or calling the cops. Since he seemed to take pride in his fighting skills(per his text messages), and judging by the fact that he was pretty much home before he turned around to find GZ, it seems to me that he was looking for a fight and found one.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

So we know we have a guy with a gun who's following one specific person (who was going home! leaving the scene!), but Martin wasn't protecting himself?

Also, in what world do you live in where the police give a shit what happens to a black person?

And lastly, he wouldn't have been looking for a fight if Zimmerman had never left his car in the first place.

[hookemnick.livejournal.com]

Right, and that chick wouldn't have gotten raped if she would have just stayed home rather than go to the club.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Not the same thing at all. The 'chick' is at a club having a drink. Trayvon Martin was walking home minding his own business. In both cases you have perp that interprets these perfectly innocent and legal behaviors as somehow and invitation to stalking and violence. That's victim blaming of the worst kind.

This is a really bad analogy.

[hookemnick.livejournal.com]

Again, it depends on how you interpret the events. I tend to believe the jury, investigators, and eye-witnesses whereas you seem to ignore all evidence and logic.

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

What eye-witnesses? Eye witnesses see two people fighting. They didn't see who started it, why it started or anything else. Even the jury felt that Zimmerman should have stayed in his car. Logic tells me that if you see someone you suspect is a criminal you don't get out and confront them. That's the police's job.

[housedog.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that Zimmerman's choice to get out of the car and confront Martin while doing neighborhood watch duties exceeds the parameters set down by the Homeowners' Association and it flies in the face of the 911 Dispatch telling him to stand down and let the police handle matters. Even if Zimmerman truly had no amount of common sense available to him at that pivotal moment, he still had clear, nonconfrontational parameters for his job as a nightwatchman and the calm voice of the 911 Dispatcher telling him to sit back and wait for the police.

[hookemnick.livejournal.com]

Again, there is zero evidence that GZ confronted anyone. If you keep saying it, it won't magically make it true.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Where is the evidence that Martin confronted anyone?

[spamwarrior.livejournal.com]

And yet a confrontation happened. If one party was walking away, logic insists that it was the other person who did the confronting.

[senshifan.livejournal.com]

Most reasonable people protect themselves by leaving the scene or calling the cops.

GZ got out of the car because TM left the scene. And like Jack said, blacks + cops =/= a good idea. Most of the time.

he was pretty much home before he turned around to find GZ

If I see someone stalking me on my way home, I'm not going to go home so they can see where I live.

[hookemnick.livejournal.com]

That makes sense but I bet you wouldn't stick around either without calling the police.

[senshifan.livejournal.com]

I would call my mom or a friend, actually. (Done it before.) Like I said, blacks + police =/= a good idea. There are police who aren't racist, but I'd rather not take a chance to end up with a policeman who is.

[ginkaruja.livejournal.com]

'Reasonable people' act and react in different ways to different situations. When I was walking home one night and passed in front of a car that parked in a school parking lot, I was unsure of continuing. When I did so and guys started getting out of said car, I had to make a choice because A. I knew I couldn't outrun them and B. I didn't have a phone, and even if I did, there's a chance they could have rushed me before I had finished dialing or just hung it up or something. Also without any weapon, I had no real way of defending myself, but if I was going to go down and probably get ganged raped, I was going to go down making a hell of a lot of noise, if not fighting even though I'd probably be over powered easily. So I turned, started barking as loud and as fast as I could and gave a mini charge. They ran, and I trotted home in an adrenaline rush with my idea confirmed...act crazy and people are less likely to mess with you. Wouldn't work in a sneak and grab situation, but for that and for me, it did.

[catlin.livejournal.com]

"I don't feel that TM was protecting himself. Most reasonable people protect themselves by leaving the scene or calling the cops."

You mean like Zimmerman did? Cause you know he TOTALLY protected himself by -getting out of the car to confront TM-

TM had every right to protect himself from the strange adult who was following him. At least as much if not more then Zimmerman had to get out and stalk him.

[hookemnick.livejournal.com]

Why does everyone act like they know his motivation to get out of the car?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

By getting out of his car he instigated the encounter.

So George Zimmerman no longer has access to roadways when Trayvon Martin is walking around?

The argument that the incident may not have occurred if Zimmerman stayed in his truck is valid. The idea that Zimmerman is culpable in any way because he got out of the truck is ridiculous. The act of getting out of a truck is not one that causes a fear of life of bodily integrity, nor is observing someone in a public place. The act of getting out of a truck is also not one that justifies going up to that person who got out of the truck, punching them, and then repeatedly beating them against the concrete pavement.

Disagree with hookem's broader point of view on this all you want. But to dispute the above paragraph abandons even the basic facts of the case.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

So George Zimmerman no longer has access to roadways when Trayvon Martin is walking around?

Sure he does, as long as he's not stalking someone.


The idea that Zimmerman is culpable in any way because he got out of the truck is ridiculous.

Sure he could be culpable. There never would have been an encounter if he had stayed in his car.


The act of getting out of a truck is not one that causes a fear of life of bodily integrity, nor is observing someone in a public place.

When is the last time you were stalked? I had one, once, and they were in public places the entire time. It's no fun, and it's not legal to boot.


...going up to that person who got out of the truck, punching them, and then repeatedly beating them against the concrete pavement.

Prove it.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Sure he does, as long as he's not stalking someone.

Good thing he wasn't stalking anyone, then!

Sure he could be culpable. There never would have been an encounter if he had stayed in his car.

Zimmerman did not create the encounter by getting out of the car. Martin made a choice to confront and attack.

When is the last time you were stalked? I had one, once, and they were in public places the entire time. It's no fun, and it's not legal to boot.

In person, a while ago. Otherwise, a little over a year. No, it's not fun, but I'm not going to press charges over it, either. Nor am I going to go find my stalker and attack them.

Prove it.

Girlfriend's testimony, Zimmerman's injuries.

[spamwarrior.livejournal.com]

Why? TM was standing his ground.