When will we learn?

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

Comments

[unnamed525.livejournal.com]

Powerful.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

But, but, but... cell phones and baseball bats!

[unnamed525.livejournal.com]

Beat on the brat
Beat on the brat
Beat on the brat with a baseball bat.

[joshthevegan.livejournal.com]

[radioclashed.livejournal.com]

PEANUT BUTTAH JELLY
PEANUT BUTTAH JELLY
PEANUT BUTTAH JELLY

PEANUT BUTTAH JELLY WITH A BASEBALL BAT

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

And the tobacco deaths! Don't get me started on texting while driving!

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing the op was run over by Lindsay Lohan while she was texting and driving. It happens a lot in the L.A. area.

[madscience.livejournal.com]

I presume these are firearm homicides.

First of all, in a country of 311 million people, a lot of crazy shit is going to go down every single day. In 98 days, about half a million Americans die. In light of that, 2,243 homicides is not the terrifying epidemic some people make it out to be.

More importantly, there is no evidence that restricting gun ownership would reduce that figure. Since Australia banned many types of firearms, their homicide rate has continued its 30-year decline unaffected. And since the UK did the same, their homicide rate has held steady as it did for 20 years prior. But in many other ways, the bans actually made things significantly worse (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323777204578195470446855466.html). Note especially Australia's 40% increase in assaults and 20% increase in sexual assaults.

So... what are you expecting us to "learn" here?

[perfica.livejournal.com]

Note especially Australia's 40% increase in assaults and 20% increase in sexual assaults.

And do you think allowing more people to have semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic and pump-action shotguns would decrease the number of assaults, sexual and otherwise?

Find me an Australian living in Australia that would rather have your system of gun control than ours, then make assumptions about whether the bans have made things significantly worse.

[izmeina.livejournal.com]

So how many of these assaults were fatal even assuming that 40% increase is correct. And how many Australians have been killed in mass shootings since April 1996? I can think of one university student who shot and killed two class mates since then.

So here's another Australian glad to be living under our draconian dictatorial gun restrictions (not to mention our communist totalitarian government run health care system)

[madscience.livejournal.com]

It appears that banning those weapons did increase the number of assaults.

Of course, correlation is not causation. But we can't run controlled experiments on real societies, so the best way to tease out causality is to observe what happens in one society when the variable we're interested in changes. And it doesn't look good for gun control.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Well, I learned gun nutz have little to nothing to offer the victims of gun violence.

[american-geist.livejournal.com]

Except the only thing they really need, MORE GUNS!!

[madscience.livejournal.com]

Not when what they want is public policy that will make things worse. I won't give them an inch.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

B-B-BUT BAN ALL THE THINGS

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

I was hoping you would learn to stop trying to rationalize gun violence. Funny how stories of the UK gun ban making crime worse make no mention of the methodological changes in how crime was measured in the intermediary. Nope, instead you make grossly dishonest comparisons. Well sorry but the US has a gun death rate 10 times higher than Australia and 50 times higher than the UK even if what you purported to say was actually accurate so you can fuck right off.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

The facts reported in that article for Australia are used misleadingly at best. The sexual abuse stats have a lot to do with awareness of reporting and nothing to do with guns. Also, "modest decline in massacres" from 5 in the 80s and early 90s to none since isn't a "modest decline" it's a "cessation". Gun suicides went right down and yes, other methods went up, but overall suicides were down dramatically (i.e. most gun suicides *don't* get replaced by other means).

Yes, assaults are up by 17%, meaning we've managed to reduce homicides even in a more violent society.

The reduction in gun ownership, if looked at without manipulating figures and using sleight of hand, absolutely led to less gun deaths.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

Anyone that hopes to reduce violence, particularly firearm violence, should be focused on ending the Drug War.

48% of all US violent crime, including gun violence, is gang related according to the FBI.
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/2011-national-gang-threat-assessment

The primary reason for existence of gangs and cartels is the $400 billion /year US drugs black market. Other activities are secondary/opportunistic.

To put out a fire, you remove fuel and/or oxygen.
Legalize, regulate, tax, educate.

Continue to interdict foreign shipments and crack down on gangs. Their money dries up, they can't attract new members or support their operations. Use proceeds from taxes on same and former drug war spending to implement single payer healthcare with addiction treatment on demand.

No more wasting Billions per year - one Trillion so far - creating a black market for psychopaths to exploit. No more wasting billions per year ruining the lives of people that have harmed no one. No more wasting billions per year militarizing our police forces, eroding our own rights, and creating for profit prisons. No more overwhelmingly disproportionate victimization of minorities. No more incarcerating casual users and small time dealers with hardened criminals in gang run prisons, creating criminal universities in every state and hardened criminals where there were none.

Good data on costs:
http://thedea.org/itsresults.html

This chart directly correlates overall and gun deaths (which mostly track each other) to peaks in the Drug War.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4KGszM_HiU8/T0EqeoECYpI/AAAAAAAAH24/eP8RqAB5NOE/s1600/gun+violence+down+-+chart.gif

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/419864_473654732689941_163550975_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/734427_595799260438948_290420038_n.jpg




http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

I'm aware of the Drug War's impact on violence...

[american-geist.livejournal.com]

I don't think anyone here would disagree with that.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Can't be done, since so much drug wholesale trafficking is done through our US overseas intelligence agencies as a way to fund their operations sub rosa. Nice thought, though.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I assume this includes suicides? Pretty misleading if so.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

When you assume you make an ass of yourself Jeff...

[wight1984.livejournal.com]

Very emotive. Not exactly what I'd call a fair presentation of the statistics though.

It lacks a source.
It lacks information on what kinds of deaths are included
It doesn't place the statistic in context (which would mean comparing it to the size of the overall population).

I'm not saying that gun-regulation isn't justified, but if it is justified then we should be able to use statistics properly to prove the point.

[rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com]

"The Huffington Post compiled news reports of gun-related homicides and accidental deaths in the U.S. since the massacre in Newtown, Conn. on the morning of Dec. 14."

http://data.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/gun-deaths