Political Cartoons

If you want to be in America, respect the American law.

There's a lot of laws that are questionable- we all know this, and we question them. But the law of citizenship is not one of these questioned laws.

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It's not? I question why it's so hard to immigrate to America.

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Because we shouldn't be an immigrant country any more, for one thing.

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One abbreviated and current unsubstantiated answer is:
"We don't have an "empty" country anymore".
Another answer is, "We have enough problems as it is in the melting pot, adding more people will only strain the melting process further"

I ask you to either respond to these at face value or wait for a small essay detailing my reasons. I have to do stuffs now so I can't give them the attention they deserve.

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Point 1: yeah, it does have a lower population density relative to Japan/Europe. But in terms of "free space", we're full. To expand now is to encroach on other land, leading to enviromental problems. Arguably, shouldn't we strive for a stable population until we get a stable situation?

Point 2: And we had problems with both those floodings. I'm sure you've noticed the white-power crackpots coming out of the woodwork. Mexicans(they ARE the predominant Latino country immigrating) still aren't well-assimilated. Do we really want more stress on our society?

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2b. I'm fully aware of the fragmenting of American culture. But there's some thread of common culture there; it's in the attitudes more than the visible cultural signs.

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There's a lot of cons to throwing people into our country. Most can be argued through, because that's how things are, but they are points of concern, nonetheless.

1. Language. Do they speak acceptable English? Can they write it acceptably?

2. Education. Shouldn't we be selecting immigrants with a high education level so that the general quality of our country will improve?

3. Criminality. How much background checks are done? Are we accepting felons?

4. Culture. Mexicans are famous for their poor treatment of women. Do we want to throw our culture back by accepting this?

5. Assimilation. Many Mexicans don't assimilate well. Shouldn't we select for the people that have sought to integrate into the US instead of just live here?

6. Respect for the law. Do we want people who have ignored the law so far? Wouldn't this lead to further crime down the road because they don't respect the law?

7. It's been at least 60 years Mexicans have been moving into US culture. There were race riots in LA in the 40's- the Zoot Suit riots. I conjecture that their culture has endemic issues merging with the US. Do we really want this huge group of people showing up and forming a new bloc?

8. Work. People say, "They take jobs whites don't want". Maybe if they weren't there to take the jobs, whites would take them? I know that personally I have no issues doing grunt work. Been there, done that, spat the dirt out. ;) It sounds so reverse racist- "Whites are too good for this work, let's make the Mexicans do it!"

I can keep going. But I feel these are valid concerns.

Regarding my first two points.

Empty country. The US does not have an empty space anymore(yes, there were Indians, no, they were not considered "people"). There is a finite holding capacity of the US, and all development now is done on currently held land. Either we rebuild on old built land or we build on farmland or rangeland. Farmland is the fastest and cheapest way to build out, but it has very real enviromental issues. Pick up any conservation or enviromental magazine and you'll observe such.

Where will these people go? We have so many current issues relating to race, ethnicity, and culture as it is, I really don't think injecting a large group- (estimated size, 12million)- is a wise decision.

Clearly, they are here. Clearly, many wish to stay. Clearly, it's folly to throw them out of the US: it'd be impractical, expensive, probably eventually involve various crimes by the military and police, and would be a thoughourly rotten operation. I can't say I have a solution that wraps the issue up and sends it off with a bow-tie.
I think some form of Resident Worker program is needed. I think some sort of selection process is needed, with the willingness to boot them out if they fail. I think an acculturation program should be created so the people who really want to stay can stay. Reportably, there are a lot of drugs coming in through the illegal immigrants. That needs to be shut down and selected against. And so forth.

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*chuckle*

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Yeah, I hear ya. It's effectively closing the barn door when the thieves are cutting a hole in the stall to the outside.

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1. It was accepted that the immigrants made a fighting effort to learn English and their children also were to learn English.

2. That's so arrogant it takes my breath away. They aren't just field workers.

4. Bringing up the catholic thing; do you ever wonder at the catholic bishops trying to influence things here regarding it? Methinks a certain church wants a bigger voting bloc in their views.

6. I feel that someone who ignored the law in that aspect may ignore the law in others; ie fraud.

7. That's my point: why have mexicans still not assimilated after 60 years like the other immigrants?

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Why not? And more importantly, why should people willing to work for their citizenship be denied it, while Americans, who do nothing to earn it, are given it for free?

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That requires a philosophical discussion of what being a citizen means. I have not the knowledge to debate it. At the moment, I take it as a given.

And, I have no respect for people illegally in the US, who have proven their lack of desire not to work for it legally. There are avenues. Maybe not easy ones. But there are ways to be here legally.

I support making illegal aliens felons if they are not out by a certain time, and mass deportations, as impractical as that is.

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I don't disagree. It's ferociously impractical to have the military run all the illegals out. I'd like to see it happen, but, eh, it ain't gonna happen.

I do know that the "free wealth/better life" idea is the draw. I wonder why they can't get ahead in Mexico, but I don't know enough to speculate.

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Your empathy for others is overwhelming.

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I support death penalty too- does that make you feel better?

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Why am I not surprised.

Nevermind that the institution is incredibly racist, or that innocent people have been wrongly put to death...

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Death isn't racist.

And it's better to have an institution that permanently removes evil people from society, even some people are put to death that shouldn't have. Wrongfully condemmed people are an issue of the trial, not the death.

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vlion.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-01 11:21 pm (UTC) - Expand

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vlion.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-02 04:22 am (UTC) - Expand

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vlion.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-05-02 05:14 pm (UTC) - Expand

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ccnuggie.livejournal.com

So we should keep murderers in prison for life, where they can kill others and lead fruitful lives in gangs? Bitch, please.

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thomasblair.livejournal.com

I find it fascinating that all these people railing against immigrants for "breaking the law" have the balls to stand on self-proclaimed moral (and legal) high ground and imply that they've never sped, or rolled a stop sign, or failed to declare some handyman income, or any of the other hundreds of violations of the "law" that ordinary people will commit each year, knowingly or unknowingly. Who, among them, when stopped for speeding, didn't try to talk their way out of the ticket, when they know damned well they were "breaking the law". For you to claim high ground here and talk about the transgression of people yearning for freedom is hypocritical, and worthy of ridicule.

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There are different types of breaking the law; it's even codified into our legal system: infractions, misdemenors, and felonies.

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Right. And you're saying that an illegal immigrant has committed the same "type of breaking the law" as rapists, murderers, etc. Illegal immigration is a problem - but do they really deserve to be classified as felons? They take the jobs that Americans don't want- they'll do anything just to escape horrible conditions in their own countries.

Can you really blame them? You really don't know what you would do if in their positions.

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Just like grand theft. Doesn't "harm" anyone, does it?

Yes, I do know what I'd do. I'd follow the law.

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There's no way you can know that, but if you want to tell yourself that, by all means remain on your high horse.

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Who exactly are the illegal immigrants stealing from? I have yet to see any of them in a job where they really make money. They take jobs Americans don't want. It's not like they're coming over here and living a life of luxury.

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It was an example of a felony that was not violent crime. Duh.

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Also, "taking jobs American's don't want"...??!

What, are we too good for picking the fields?
I would have jumped at a job like that back in high school.

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Would you have jumped on that job at the wages they make, with employment available only seasonally? It doesn't sound like anyone's dream job. Also, you can see that native-born Americans don't want the jobs because, well, they're not the ones doing the jobs. If they were willing to do the job at that wage, then they'd be there too.

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Yeah!

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kadaria.livejournal.com

Easy to say when you're in high school and living under your parent's roof, have a command of the english language and endowed with all the privilages of a US citazen.
But what if you (and your family) had to live on that job or that was the only job you could have, not just temporarily? As a high schooler, you could walk away from this job and find a new one such as working in a store, or a fast food place. All for minimum wages because since you're a citazen, you are entitled to fair wages.
Immigrants don't have this luxery. When Neon and I say "for those wages" we mean "whatever wages your boss wants you to have whether you deserve them or not". And for the record, an American family cannot get by on 18,000 a year without being in perpetual debt.

And its easy to talk big on an internet forum. Why don't you go spend your summer doing one of these jobs? Or are you too good for it?

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Any citizen is entitled to fair wages. I do not shed tears over illegals getting underpaid.

Also, I may *have* to spend my summer doing one of those jobs. Although I couldn't prove it to you.

Cheers/

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studmuff.livejournal.com

mexico sucks. sorry. not my problem. shouldn't be america's either.

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Word. Whether we like it or not, we have to deal with some of Mexico's problems, because we share a border and there's bleedover.

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madmethod.livejournal.com

Mexico is a huge land mass covering a shit-ton of natural resources that we may need to purchase some day. There are millions of Mexicans who's lives are horrid and will do anything to protect/help their families. For both these reasons Mexico IS our problem.

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ccnuggie.livejournal.com

Yes, they are felons. Don't like it? Tough.

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shadowfox24.livejournal.com

Not the same people who are currently trying to make them into "victims".

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studmuff.livejournal.com

haha, i've rolled a stop sign. i guess i can go into any country i want and demand citizenship for nothing? good comparsion, fellow moral high-ground brother

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They're not demanding citizenship for nothing. They're asking for the chance at citizenship. Mexicans are not risking their lives crossing the border (yes, many die trying to make it to America) because they're too lazy to fill out some paperwork, but because America denies them any other chance. They want to be here as citizens, and the protests are because we won't let them.

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