(no subject)

[moonshaz.livejournal.com]

EDITED TO ADD: I've deleted the other images in this post, due to learning that the quotes on them were fake. Sorry!

Comments

[skittish-derby.livejournal.com]

Its all a bit too complicated then that I'm afraid. i didn't grow up in a quiverful household, but my parents did follow Bill Gothard and his books and I was homeschooled for many of my formative years. I am intimately familiar with the type of sexual non-education the kids here get and it pretty much breeds dysfunction. Healthy relationships don't stem from learning that boys are ruled by their hormones and if they slip it is the victim's fault (I say slip because they don't view child molestation as a different more worse sin then say, two teenagers experimenting)

I am *not* defending him or them in ANY way, what he and everyone else did here is completely out of line and he needs some real help. In some ways, he, too, is a victim of his parents and their cult.

eh. sorry, all this is very personal and I loathe seeing them in public, especially when most of the public doesn't seem to understand that the problems go much deeper than an older brother sexually abusing his younger siblings. Yes, he is sick, but he was raised in an environment that basically fostered it. (and if not this, then some other dysfunction)

and now I am just repeating myself.

[oslo.livejournal.com]

I think this is an excellent point.

The vilification of Duggar we're seeing in liberal quarters may end up just serving the underlying Christian-serving narrative. The question we're asking is framed as one of sin and atonement; it's framed as though Duggar was a corruptible human, capable of making mistakes, and the only question now is whether his actions were properly addressed then and whether he should answer for them now.

But, as you note, that causes us to overlook the true victims here, and the true victimizers. We ask whether Jim Bob Duggar did the right thing, when he learned of Josh's actions, rather than whether the entire environment he was instrumental in creating was inherently abusive and corrupting. So maybe we should "defend" Josh Duggar. Not for the way he's trying to escape his past actions as an adult, and not for how he might be serving to protect his father's reputation, but for his original actions - as a way of highlighting the deeper problems in how the Duggars have raised their children (and in how we think about their arrangement).

[skittish-derby.livejournal.com]

I agree. There are a lot of children in families with very similar dynamics, this isn't the first time and won't be the last that this type of thing happens in these kinds of environments.

bah. it is all so disheartening and complicated. It isn't like there is anything anyone can *do* about it-- the nature of these groups is to isolate themselves and are very distrustful of outside help. You can't force them to integrate with the "secular" world, it doesn't really work that way. :/

[moonshaz.livejournal.com]

I agree with both of you (skittish_derby and oslo). I think this whole thing just goes to show how dysfunctional those beliefs and that lifestyle really are (although OF COURSE those who follow this path will NEVER see it that way).

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

I don't know if your familiar with Libby Anne's ongoing blog series "Love, Joy, Feminism," (or if you'd even find it useful) but she blogs often, and at length, about growing up in a household that followed many of those same philosophies. Her stories and analysis go a long way to explaining what's really going on behind the scenes there (which is, as you say, a lot more than just one guy doing one bad thing.)

Here's a link to her page, if you're interested: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/

[skittish-derby.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. I am fascinated with reading personal blogs about this sort of thing, helps me know that I am not alone in what I experienced.

[hurleyman.livejournal.com]

Then the question remains, do we punish the perpetrators or the people who created them?

I agree 100% with your commentary...even thought to myself that it wouldn't be shocking to find out he was abused himself...but who and when do we hold someone accountable?

If it were up to me, we'd make religious extremism like this illegal...religion should stop at your nose. That they're now creating even more crazies (sorry if you find that offensive, but these people, are in fact, out of their ever loving mind), who do we punish when they violate our countries laws?

Do I blame his parents and those around him? ABSOLUTELY YES! When will our courts catch up to this?

[skittish-derby.livejournal.com]

Not offended in the least. I am a staunch atheist at this point of my life, mostly keep it to myself at this point, live and let live and all. These people bring out my angry militant voice. It was a horrible way to grow up, and some of the men in these groups are so bullheaded they actually believe they are doing the best they can for their sons and property daughters. Disturbing.

I don't know that it is possible, in the political climate we have, to do anything meaningful. The most we can do is push for access to social programs to teach parents what is and isn't abuse, and healthy ways to raise healthy children. And yet, even that gets an awful lot of push back from conservatives.