Class War

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

Krugman writes about how most Americans do not even know how vast is our inequality. They know about celebrities ...

But celebrities make up only a tiny fraction of the wealthy, and even the biggest stars earn far less than the financial barons who really dominate the upper strata. For example, according to Forbes, Robert Downey Jr. is the highest-paid actor in America, making $75 million last year. According to the same publication, in 2013 the top 25 hedge fund managers took home, on average, almost a billion dollars each.

-- Paul Krugman at NYT

Comments

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

Expropriating the rich won't do any good. It has been tried many times. Current US population is something around 320 millions. If you tooks those 25 bln and divided it among everybody it will give every person extra 78.12 $ per year.

[goumindong.livejournal.com]

1) $78.12 is a lot of money if you've got zero dollars

2) There are a lot more than 25 wealthy people in the US, and if we're going for confiscatory practices we have access to capital, not just income

3) it has not ever been tried

4) People aren't talking about that, they're talking about modestly increasing the tax rate

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

For historical experience on wealth confiscation look up Russian Revolution of 1917 and all that happened thereafter.

Most of the personal capitals of today are not in tangibles (like lands or ships or gold bars) but in investments and securities. As soon as you start confiscating stuff your country risks go through the roof and all those shares and options are worth zilch.

[goumindong.livejournal.com]

Do you know what investments and securities are?

Protip: They're actual ownership stakes in real organizations with real capital, and real owed income streams.

I am not sure you want to use Russia as the best example. There wasn't anything to take in Russia.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

In 1914 Imperial gold reserves were the largest in the world at 1311 tonnes.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

It's like you ignored all their previous points, and created a straw-man argument about the Russian Revolution.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

I mentioned confiscation of wealth. Goumindong said "it has not ever been tried". As it was exactly what was done during the revolution I referred him to that historical example.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

You don't, of course, need to go to the Russian Revolution.

One could quite simply look at the history and efficacy of direct transfer programs in other liberal democracies in the developed world.

And we would, interestingly enough, see that they still have lots of rich people and rates of child poverty that make us look like a developing economy.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

I don't think even Krugman is suggesting expropriation. There are some moderate moves, such as using some of that wealth on our healthcare system, our schools, our infrastructure, instead of allowing all that wealth be used merely for the personal pleasure and self-aggrandizement of the very rich.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

Lets have some debate! I'll take the extra-capitalist side ;)
If my neighbour has X dollars in a bank and I have none and I take some of those dollars it is called theft. If, however, those dollars are first routed through governmental bureaucracy it is called social equality.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

I don't believe anyone can truly earn a billion dollars on their own merit, but is acquired, in part, through elaborate legal and social arrangements. Taxation is just another layer in these legal and social arrangements, as we try to achieve decent results.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

DO NOT TREAD ON MY TAX INVERSIONS! :P

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

Yes, the argument has really fast gone to the very crux - what is "decent".

[chron-job.livejournal.com]

> If, however, those dollars are first routed through governmental bureaucracy
> it is called social equality.

*Sigh* Translation, Taxes = Theft.


Taxes are legitimized by the same social structure that legitimizes the existence of the property which is taxed. If one makes the argument that Government does not have the "right" to tax, one can just as easily make the argument that it does not have the "right" to define the borders of property to protect it, and thus no "right" to prevent me from appropriating yours.

If taxes are theft, then property is theft. If property can exist, legitimately separated from the idea of theft, so can taxes.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Proudhon would be proud. :)

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Taxes are payment for services rendered.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Expropriating the rich won't do any good. It has been tried many times.

True. And every time it got tried (with remarkably few exceptions that involved guillotines and pitchforks) the rich squashed that shit like a god damned bug.

I'm currently reading up on how fucking effective it is! You wouldn't believe how many of perhaps probably your beliefs in how our economy does/should work are the woven dreams of paid academic hacks, people who would do anything to keep that sweet, sweet donations and endowments flowing their way!

[cinnamontoast.livejournal.com]

Oddly, I thought of you when I read Krugman's article earlier. I also thought of this article: How top executives live (Fortune, 1955) (http://readability.com/m?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffortune.com%2F2012%2F05%2F06%2Fhow-top-executives-live-fortune-1955%2F). Somehow, they managed to survive.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

They really do need to be made more human again. They are gods on Olympus, and progressive taxation is communism, and it is a crazier world.

[cinnamontoast.livejournal.com]

It's scary to have Thor and Loki fucking with the snake that can crush the world, isn't it?

We are our own mythos. I feel old. I hope that made sense.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

Your statement is good, like something a bit wiser than I can see, but which I can hope to grow into. ;)

[catlin.livejournal.com]

Very apt imagery. Throw in a many legged horse and a wolf that can destroy the world, and we are set.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/fashion/08halfmill.html

[cinnamontoast.livejournal.com]

As hard as it is to believe, bankers who are living on the Upper East Side making $2 or $3 million a year have set up a life for themselves in which they are also at zero at the end of the year with credit cards and mortgage bills that are inescapable

LOL not my problem.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]