(no subject)

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

She's of course able to say this because of feminism.
(More women missing the point at Beerrrz Feeerrrd)

Comments

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

What's a "TRAP" law?

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers (TRAP) (http://reproductiverights.org/en/project/targeted-regulation-of-abortion-providers-trap)

Basically, SCOTUS ruled that states can cockblock abortion services almost to the point of outright banning them. So that's where you have week long waiting periods and mandatory ultrasounds and propaganda lectures, all designed to make a legal service as expensive and difficult to access as possible.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

Ah, that idiocy. We also unfortunately had a mandatory waiting period legislated in.
Are private reproductive health clinics not profitable in US?

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

That question seems a bit odd.

Govt regulation applies to private health clinics.

Or at least that is my understanding.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

Because whenever there is money to be made businesses can be expected to lobby for relaxation of any regulations. Plus any business looking for someone's money could be willing to apply regulations only as far as they can be controlled.
Government-run establishments on the other hand do not face business reality so they don't give a damn about their clients.
For example here in Russia a women can get a theoretically free abortion in a government clinic. But they will probably apply all the restrictions to the max and pester her as much as possible with pro-life "counseling", because the state ideology calls for population increase plus the government-run medical practices are underfunded and doctors are underpaid. If you go to a private cash-up-front clinic you would get a medical service at least as good (and maybe much better - depending on the price of course). Plus many clinics would probably "overlook" many of the stupider formalities like waiting period. I have hear hearsay that even being a week or two too late by the book can be overlooked, because after all there is no ironclad way to determine gestation period with higher accuracy than one or two weeks.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

As businesses go, they aren't that profitable. Nor do they have the lobby power to take on the right wing religious extremists. Who run for state office positions in most states with impunity.

So it's not like coal mining or an industry that brings in millions in tax revenue. Women's reproductive health is priced low for access.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

So two three things.

1) I'm sure in the US if you have the money you can find doctors that might "overlook" certain legal roadblocks--but most people aren't wealthy and a financial roadblock is as bad as any other one. We are already paying outrageously high prices for our health "insurance" (I use scare-quotes because it doesn't always "insure" that you don't go broke taking care of your health) and so adding the legal roadblock--which, of course, can be overcome by throwing money at it--still increases the difficulty of obtaining an abortion

2) It is a religious argument here in the US--not about increasing the population [I've only heard that argument about homosexuality here in the US, never about abortion] and so the religious zealots might, in fact, be quite active in seeking out those who violate their divinely-inspired law.

3) Doctors here are sometimes paid by the number of procedures they do. Thus, if you are a doctor and you could perform 1 procedure (abortion)--OR--you have to do, let's say, 3 procedures (ultrasound, something else, abortion) you get paid for 3 procedures, so more money for you.

So it's a matter of it being partially money-driven, as you might expect (increase procedures=increased payments) and partially being religiously based, which changes the zeal with which enforcement may occur.

*edit: two things became three, I'm looking at you opening statement.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

How "wealthy" are we talking about?
I have just looked up abortion prices in Moscow (which is one the most expensive cities in the world) and it is about 250-700 USD depending on the clinic, lenghth of gestation etc. This is not particularly expensive IMO.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

When you are living paycheck to paycheck, as so many Americans do, $700 is not cheap.
For example, I don't even have $300 in my savings acct right now. When you're broke, anything more than the meager amount you have is a lot.

Lots of Americans are perpetually broke.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, it's not really cheap. But compared to the costs and length of raising an unwanted child... even loansharks or organ buyers seem a nicer alternative.

[catlin.livejournal.com]

Most health clinics are private here. There is no abortion clinic that is funded by tax payer money. Some county health centers provide condoms or the pill, but anything else has to come from a private doctor. (Planned parenthood is technically a private provider)

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

And if these clinics are private and do make profits - how do the state governments manage to decrease their numbers? Do they fiddle licenses or some zoning laws?

[catlin.livejournal.com]

That would be exactly it.

Trap laws require clinics to be within X distance of a hospital, or have a physician with admitting privileges at a hospital within X miles (note, my orthopedic surgeon didn't have that and I could just as easily have died due to an error of his as a botched abortion. If you have to go to an ER for a medical problem, the ER doc will admit you). One of the new tricks is requiring their clinic buildings to be built to a different code then other medical providers. One such: requiring janitorial closets in every procedure room. Again, a law that -only- applied to abortion clinics.

None of these laws actually have anything to do with the woman's health, just with restricting access.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

So, have the clinics tried to sue for discriminatory practices?

[catlin.livejournal.com]

There are actually lawsuits pending in many states over these. In some cases, like Kansas, they got implementation delayed til the lawsuit was over, in some like Texas they did not and clinics have closed. There are now very few womens health clinics left in Texas that can give abortions, one of which is owned by the governor of Texas's family members.

[mudryikot.livejournal.com]

So, have the clinics tried to sue for discriminatory practices?