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[madam-shapo.livejournal.com]

Comments

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Also, did you know Obama has deported more illegal immigrants than any president before him?

http://www.thenation.com/article/179099/why-has-president-obama-deported-more-immigrants-any-president-us-history

[madam-shapo.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't because it's probably not true. I know they cook a lot of numbers. Here an article that claims opposite of yours.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/10/american-principles-action/has-barack-obama-deported-more-people-any-other-pr/
If we consider the current events, it looks that they rather importing them.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

From your citation (did you read it? Because it agrees with me)

"Such patterns do not explain the 57 percent bump in monthly deportations that we found under Obama."

And

"Technically, the ad isn’t correct to say that Barack Obama "has deported more people than any other president in this country's history," since George W. Bush cumulatively deported more over his full eight-year term -- and since Bush would remain ahead of Obama if Mitt Romney wins the presidency in November.

However, we -- and the experts we interviewed -- agree that the ad is right to note a significant jump in deportations under Obama. Measured by the monthly frequency of deportation, Obama’s numbers are significantly higher than Bush’s were, even as the estimated population of illegal immigrants was falling."

That was from Obama's first term. He won the elections and the rate of deportations did not decrease.

[madam-shapo.livejournal.com]

Here is the end of the article:
We rate the claim Half True.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Yes. The reasoning that Obama was still in his first term at the time they reviewed that statistic. They were allowing for the possibility that deportations would be reduced in subsequent years. They haven't.

If:

Comparing two years of Obama to eight years of Bush = 1/2 true.

Then:

Comparing six years of Obama to eight years of Bush = 3/4 true.

In two more years it will become 100% accurate unless Obama drastically reduces our deportation rate, which doesn't seem likely.

[madam-shapo.livejournal.com]

Here is another from "National Review".
The ICE report noted that of those 368,644 removals, 235,093 (or nearly two-thirds) were carried out on individuals “apprehended while, or shortly after, attempting to illegally enter the United States.” This shows that while the Obama administration continues to deport illegal immigrants in large numbers, most of these removals do not constitute a “deportation” in the conventional sense.

The point is the numbers do not mean much, because as I said, they cook the numbers.
We do have more or less illegals? That is the right question.

Did you look at my original link? Stop confusing me.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/lies-damned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

In actuality, that category has been obsolete in immigration law since 1996. Prior to 1996, immigration law distinguished between immigrants who were “excluded,” or stopped and prevented from entering U.S. territory, and those who were “deported,” or expelled from the United States after they had made their way into U.S. territory. After 1996, both exclusion and deportation were rolled into one procedure called “removal.”

By your own article, fours years of Clinton, Eight years of Bush are all under the same measure.

Plus, the article lack evidence (ie, did not demonstrate) that the distinction invalidates the actual totals.

"Dara Lind notes that the Bush administration seems to have reported removals and returns together, but Obama’s administration has emphasized only its number of removals."

Ah, that means Bush's numbers were even lower than Obama's per his method of counting. This works in my favour, but they don't ever quantify the distinctions.

"This confusion enables political spin, too. If you want to portray Obama as weak on enforcement, use the removal numbers, which, compared to his predecessors, are lower. If you want to make Obama look tougher on enforcement, combine the return and removal numbers (like George W. Bush apparently did)"

No matter how you work this, Bush's numbers were lower, per your own article.

And lastly:

"CORRECTION: The original post claimed that Obama had de-emphasized removals and concentrated on returns and that the ratio of his removals to returns was skewed toward returns compared to his predecessors. That claim is not correct because based on DHS’s data, (Table 39: Aliens Removed and Returned, FY 1892-2012) his cumulative numbers since taking office show Obama has removed a total of 1,974,688 people and returned 1,609,055 others. There have been more returns than removals only in FY 2009 and 2010. "

No matter how you wanna slice it, Obama's numbers are higher by the same measure since 1996 and likely higher before.

[madam-shapo.livejournal.com]

As I said from the very beginning, it is really difficult to make any assessment with these numbers. No wonder, even "experts" don't have a clear answer. You tell me, did he make the situation better or not? We don't know how people came, we only can guess that illegal population grows every year. Nobody does anything about it, and sooner or later this will lead to a catastrophe. I don't think just saying that they did nothing before, is a good excuse for current (and any) administration.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

You tell me, did he make the situation better or not?

My idea of better may not be yours. Besides, he's one of those leaders you were talking about that we cannot trust. The real question is did we make the situation better or not, right?

e don't know how people came, we only can guess that illegal population grows every year

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-population-over-time

[madam-shapo.livejournal.com]

What did you do? Why I had to unscreen this reply?

Please, do not forget that I am talking about illegal immigration - big difference. The chart is immigration numbers, not sure if illegal included too.

My idea of better may not be yours.
My idea of better - law and order first, then the rest.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

I don't know? Maybe I hit wrong button? I wasn't aware it was screened. Sorry. I didn't get lj notice.

[madam-shapo.livejournal.com]

No problem at all, I just wasn't sure what was going on. I thought maybe you were mad at me.