Date: 2014-06-30 12:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
Please read Isiah Berlin's Two Concepts of Liberty. It is helpful for those who really do want to abandon antiquated concepts of liberty in favour of a more modern version.

Date: 2014-06-30 01:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
Is there a specific point you could summarize?

Date: 2014-06-30 03:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
Well, there isn't Ten Commandments anyway. But assuming this, do you think those "basic postulates" should be laws.

The point is that purely negative theories of liberty do not consider enabling positive liberties.

Date: 2014-06-30 03:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
The so-called decalogue is a bit of a myth. There's usually around 12-13 depending on how you count them (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Traditions_for_numbering).

But the main point being, do you think those Commandments should be laws?

Date: 2014-06-30 05:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
That's not the question I asked. I asked do you think those Commandments should be laws?

Date: 2014-07-01 12:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
You wrote: " I take 10 commandments as basic postulates. Everything is driven on this fundament."

If you think these are basic postulates, then surely you think they should be enforced by law. If not, why not?

Date: 2014-07-01 12:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
Vague? You're calling the Decalogue vague? Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal... Doesn't seem to particularly vague to me.

Date: 2014-07-01 01:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
My point is that law provides prescriptive implementations of moral principles. If you think that the Decalogue are the fundamental principles, do you think they should be implemented in law - if not, why not?

Date: 2014-07-01 01:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
I have no idea what Decalogue is.

Yes you do. It's been linked in this thread and the term has been used multiple times. Plus, you could enter it into a search engine.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=decalogue

And why are you so interested in my opinion about this?

As just explained, laws are the prescriptive implementations of moral principles.

More to the point, why do you keep avoiding the question?

Date: 2014-07-01 03:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcpip.livejournal.com
http://politicartoons.livejournal.com/4311268.html?thread=97648100#t97648100

Date: 2014-06-30 06:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blackdwarv.livejournal.com
So, let me get this straight.

When the government tells you that you have to buy a certain product... like say a road or a bridge or police force... so those should all be thrown out and only private (toll) bridges and for-hire police should exist. Gotcha.

Wants to take most of my fruits of labor. Um, I'll assume you are using hyperbole here, because last time I checked, tax rates maxed out at 40%.. which isn't 'most'. More, you are actually getting a return on this in things like infrastructure, defense, and social programs which even if you don't use, are keeping your front lawn uncluttered from lepers begging for one of your coins...

Taxes should only benefit the members of that state? I thought you were against the federal government?

Ten Commandments? Tell me, what morality is governed by the graven images clause? You'd really be a-okay with slavery? How does same-sex marriage or polygamy or even (that Republican favorite) bestiality? None of these are forbidden by the Ten Commandments (unless it is your neighbor's ass that you want to bone...). And how do you propose to enforce that whole "God's Name In Vain" thing? Morality police who wander around waiting for a guy to stub his toe and shout "Jesus Christ"?

Date: 2014-07-01 11:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blackdwarv.livejournal.com
How clever. Government doesn't tell me personally to buy a road. The corresponding government entity(state, city, county, etc) tells the community, or vice versa, to pay for the road. If I personally don't like it, I might move to Montana (still US) and avoid paying for it. So, lets not compare oranges and melons.

I know this is hard to believe, but they still have roads in Montana. Even *gasp* INTERSTATE HIGHWAYS which are funded by... you got it... the federal government.

Why are you so dismissive of poor? All the poor are lepers to you? Actually, I don't mind paying for lepers at all, I'll be happy to pay for real disabled people. "Real" is the key world, and I don't consider laziness, stupidity or identity crisis a disability.

Oh, goodie! We agree then, and we shall immediately cut tax loopholes, raise the top minimal rate to the same as income tax, and remove all corporate subsidies. If you can work, you should, not live off my dime! Got to remove all those leeches and moochers!

There is nothing about slavery in 10 commandments.

Exactly. I'm glad that you followed that.

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