(no subject)

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Comments

[torylltales.livejournal.com]

5/5, would graph again.

[trog.livejournal.com]

I used to believe that. But now I have learned that global warming is a major cause of rape. Update your graphic: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23538771

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

Capitalism! I knew it.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Don't University of California scientists/statisticians have better things to do with their time than find these sort of correlations?

And I'm so glad that you accept correlation equals causality, because there are some arguments you've made in the past that I so want to rehash.

[trog.livejournal.com]

For the record, I agree with the graphic and not with the "study".

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Me too.

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

"It turns out that correlation is so closely correlated with causation that we've had to conclude that correlation CAUSES causation!"

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I know this will be unpopular, but that is a very un-nuanced approach.

There are these people we call rapists; how did they become that way?

Might TV have influenced them? Might alcohol have removed their better judgment? Might our sexist society have something to do with how people develop? Might that factor in to a persons thinking?

I understand that this issue is so emotional that people like black-and-white, easy to understand, simple versions of how/why these bad things happen, but it's over simplifying it to ignore what influences rapists to become who they are.

[new-wave-witch.livejournal.com]

I know this will be unpopular

Thank you for being so brave.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Socrates was a noble figure.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

And also quite wrong on a host of issues. Beside the point, I know, but it's a pet peeve of mine.

[leaf-kunoichi.livejournal.com]

I have often wondered this myself. What made them become who they are and do what they do? Of course, i also wonder this about murders. It isn't a 'find an excuse to excuse it' thing.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

I, too, have wondered that, but learned that even bringing it up with friends will cause shit-splodes. That topic, it's like dynamite with its own primer pre-installed!

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Emotions are, understandably, high around such an issue. But I do think logic aught prevail, whether or not it ever will.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

And I think logic has little if anything to do with the entire topic. Even the motivations of the rapists lies beyond rationality (I mean that literally, not as hyperbole).

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I find that to be a dubious proposition. I suspect that even among the so-called, insane, there is a logic at work.

It seems odd and simply false to claim that rapists motivation lies beyond rationality. Let's take a banal example.

Frat boy slips GHB into a girls drink and rapes her. His motivation might be complex, or it might be simple: he is a shitty person who will take what he wants, by any means necessary, ignoring the wants and wills of others.

I'm not unfamiliar with the concept that rape isn't about sex, but I have never agreed with that. It is about sex, and about how sex can be used in relation to power and other such concepts.

I'm unsure how you could arrive at the conclusion that their motivations is beyond rationality. Could you help me understand your reasoning better?

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Could you help me understand your reasoning better?

I could try.

All of the complex nuances of our human behavior are well-observed, and many of these observations well-documented. That doesn't mean we can take these observations and declare absolutely that our behavior is rational, because it is not. Rape, sex; these are but a few actions that are motivated from beyond our rational minds. What about the desire to kiss? Hug? Shake hands? Simply be in the same room with someone and gab, yak, gossip? The weird need we have to enjoy the company of others while we consume nutrient?

That frat boy, for example. I would disagree that he is simply "a shitty person who will take what he wants, by any means necessary, ignoring the wants and wills of others." That might be a component, but it fails because it inserts a pat narrative on his behavior that defies continued examination.

For example, by no means does being a shitty person encompasses his drive to go to such lengths, to create such machinations, just to rape a woman while she is unconscious. If it were, it would be painful to take that simple explanation and apply it to a rapist who wants his victims awake and aware, or to wonder why grown men are so attracted to the underage targets of their desires. All are shitty people, agreed; but what gets them aimed at their particular targets remains outside of rational narrative.

You probably noticed that I am lately somewhat obsessed by human behavior and how recent research has revealed how little we know about what drives out outward actions. This is but one such example.

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

The point of the graph isn't to discuss the nuanced intricacies of rape culture and the way our society so poorly educates our young people on consent and the respect for others' bodily autonomy. It's to lambast the usual litany of excuses trotted out like clockwork by rape apologists like some sort of patriarchy-reflex every time rape is even mentioned.

Yea, it's un-nuanced. But no more so than articles such as the one last week by Emily Yoffe preaching that women could stop getting raped if they were only to stop drinking. That kind of unhelpful insanity is what this graph is arguing against.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I don't think that over-simplifying it in the opposite direction is good either.

of course it's not the womans fault for consuming alcohol or for wearing a skirt, or anything like that, but it's worth delving into, I think, and not just going at in a superficial way. obviously it's a problem within our culture, and simplifying it does not always do justice to the complicated nature of human life. (to repeat, this is in no blaming the victim. rapists are responsible for what they do, but we shouldnt ignore cultural influences and factors on human behavior)

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Seriously dude, there's plenty of research into the causes of rape.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

And am I to understand that alcohol plays no role whatsoever? To be clear, this is NOT to defend any sexual molestation that occurs, but that people (usually men) who have been drinking alcohol are less in control of themselves and may more often do things that they would, in a sober state, know better than?

I mean, if nothing else, the fact that being too drunk to consent, means that alcohol *does* factor into some rapes.

And because I am not trying to be unduly obstinate here, could you direct me to good literature on the subject?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape (http://www.amazon.com/Against-Our-Will-Women-Rape/dp/0449908208) by Susan Brownmiller.

A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion (http://www.amazon.com/Natural-History-Rape-Biological-Coercion/dp/0262700832) by Randy Thornhill and Craig T. Palmer

There are studies examining the links of psychopathy to sexual assaults too. Here's the summary of one such study. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9337503)

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

The second link I am unsure about:

"Although they argue that rape is biological, Thornhill and Palmer do not view it as inevitable. Their recommendations for rape prevention include teaching young males not to rape, punishing rape more severely, and studying the effectiveness of "chemical castration." They also recommend that young women consider the biological causes of rape when making decisions about dress, appearance, and social activities. Rape could cease to exist, they argue, only in a society knowledgeable about its evolutionary causes.

The book includes a useful summary of evolutionary theory and a comparison of evolutionary biology's and social science's explanations of human behavior. The authors argue for the greater explanatory power and practical usefulness of evolutionary biology. The book is sure to stir up discussion both on the specific topic of rape and on the larger issues of how we understand and influence human behavior."

So your cited lit disagrees with the cartoon in OP....

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Well, there's plenty of literature out there, so good luck with the questions you asked earlier.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

So you are unfamiliar with the literature, and are simply pointing me in the direction of the literature?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

No, and yes.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

So you are familiar with it?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Good luck!

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

That's an odd response.

I'm asking if you are familiar with the literature you cited me and you won't talk about it?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

No, I only wanted to give you some leads on the research, because you seemed curious about it.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

I don't understand being reserved with one's knowledge (of an intellectual topic, private personal knowledge it makes sense to be reserved with)

[petdance.livejournal.com]

Causes of compression artifacts and smeary images:

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