"The ends justify the means..."

[johnraptor.livejournal.com]

Comments

[estella7.livejournal.com]

I just see a red x. :(

[johnraptor.livejournal.com]

My site's down. It should be back in about an hour.

[level-head.livejournal.com]

The prison guards who perpetrated the Abu Ghraib abuses were not "ultraconservative chistians". They were simply ignorant and sadistic criminals.

===|==============/ Level Head

[level-head.livejournal.com]

Technically, they don't extend their protections to those fighting without uniform or insignia.

Nevertheless, the US's own standards are much higher than that of the Geneva Conventions. So we offer protections for political prisoners that the Geneva Conventions didn't contemplate.

Remember that the Geneva Conventions was a struck bargain: "In exchange for fighting fairly and not pretending to be civilians, you will be given protection when captured."

This was not unilateral; each side is required to uphold both ends of this. The terrorists operating in Iraq ignore both parts, we act in support of both parts -- to the extent that when the Abu Ghraib criminals were discovered, they were immediately prosecuted and the situation investigated. Remember that all this was going on long before the public was aware of it.

The idiot middle-of-the-night prison guards (who were prison guards in civilian life) are being used by a cynical media to distort your view of policy. Look past them.

===|==============/ Level Head

[johnraptor.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Mine too.

[carinareena.livejournal.com]

thats a really good one. it makes me sad though.

[prudentlike.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I just sent that to my bible-thumping, bush-supporting mother.

[johnraptor.livejournal.com]

That's awsome!

[mmmmjournal.livejournal.com]

I love the common misconception, especially in this community, that I'm a Christian.

I hate religion.

You don't have to be a Jesus freak to love our President. I'm sure it helps.... but I think any rational and science-oriented mind would agree that America is right to fight for freedom in Iraq, and that the war on terror is the most significant threat to America today.

[drkl1ght.livejournal.com]

Still, the most prominent issue in the last election was listed as "morals".
Many did vote for Bush out of Christianity, and this comic targets them.

[kmilligan.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely sure how true this is. The poll you're referring to is an exit poll conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International. It breaks down to something like this:

Which ONE issue mattered most in deciding how you voted for president? (Check only one.)

Suppose terrorism and Iraq had been lumped together as some vague topic "Foreign Policy". You'd then have that topic leading at 34%, with ~40% of the votes going to Kerry, and ~60% going to Bush. The numbers could possibly be skewed by the vagueness of the question, as they most certainly were with vague "Moral values" question. See this from the Pew Research Center:

In addition, those who cite moral values as a major factor offer varying interpretations of the concept. More than four-in-ten (44%) of those who chose moral values as the most important factor in their vote from the list of issues say the term relates to specific concerns over social issues, such as abortion and gay marriage.

So even in the case of "moral values", there's not even a clear majority that believes it's about social issues. I'm not convinced that these types of polls are really worth much, and I'd take any "moral values" claims for this election with a large grain of salt.

BTW - I love that icon. I don't know if you've ever seen the snopes.com page (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/bert.htm) about it, but rather hilariously that image has been snarfed by pro-al-Qaeda groups and paraded around at rallies.

[itsjustkelly.livejournal.com]

I voted for Kerry because of my moral values. :-D

[dlmorgoth.livejournal.com]

So if we're fighting for freedom in Iraq, why do we deny it to them at every turn?

[mmmmjournal.livejournal.com]

What are you talking about? The Iraqis have their own government, they're holding free elections today, and as soon as the new government asks, we'll remove U.S. forces.

In what way are we denying them freedom?

[dlmorgoth.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Apparently you are unaware of all the martial law enforced for the duration, the denial of Iraqi rights to carry weapons to protect themselves (even though they even had that freedom under Hussein),

BTW, a puppet government is not "their own" government.

[prudentlike.livejournal.com]

Maybe you should read this. (http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0128-30.htm)

[operationpetty.livejournal.com]

that GI is pretty cute.