Political Cartoons

i believe this is about admitting mistakes. JFK did it after bay of pigs. If only bush would...nah, stay the course.

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mmmmjournal.livejournal.com

You're assuming mistakes were made.

Stay the course, freedom for Iraq.

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assuming?

*contains laughter*

Abu Gharib. Mistake or no?

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Abu Graib is pretty much irrelevant, at least as America's foreign policy goes. The Arabs really don't give a shit if we've started treating prisoners like their governments do. Most of the Iraqis don't care if the people who oppressed them were forced into naked pyramids, as they endured far worse treatment under Saddam.

The mistakes are all to do with how looting was dealt with and the failure to prepare for an insurgency.

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abu gharib happens in any and all wars. it just got caught on film this time, as i think you were getting at.

but that doesnt change the fact that there were massive civilian casualties that could have been prevented. and the looting and insurgency.

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i agree with you on the insurgency. but to go back to Gharib. It appears our president actually signed off on something permitting torture tactics. Why hasn't he been held accountable?

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Becuase Americans want terrorists tortured.

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...which is a pretty sad statement about the American people.

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Why? Because we wish pain and death on those who would do us harm?

That's just rational.

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It's sad because it lacks any quality of mercy, compassion, or even pity.

(deleted comment)

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Last time I checked, the Red Cross isn't a judicial body, so their judgement in the matter means fuck all. All they're good for is letting us know what a good job we're doing of inflicting pain on the bad guys.

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There weren't massive civilian casualties inflicted. There really should have been more casualties inflicted on the Sunnis, but that will happen one way or another, whether at our hands or the other Iraqis.

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i thought the whole point of this war was to stop the violence in iraq

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It is. The less Sunnis there are, the less violence there will be.

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Funny, I bet that's the same thing the terrorists think about us. I wonder who's right.

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They don't have the means to exterminate our people. We have the means of exterminating theirs.

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drivebyluna.livejournal.com

So we should?

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All depends how tough it is to bring Muslims into the modern world.

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Might makes right, eh? So if the terrorist and/or bathist DID have the ability to exterminate us, it would be within their rights to do so?

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Well, if they had the means to exterminate us, then we'd be back to MAD.

And if they had the means to hit us without us hitting back, then they'd do it the instant it was possible.

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sigh... well i guess its refreshing to see someone who can admit that they just wanna see some corpses.

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Actually, I prefer my enemies incinerated alive by mass quantities of ammonium nitrate.

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hey there you go. whatever floats your boat.

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jimb.livejournal.com

Yeah, Iraqis love being treated that way, and that is why they deserved invasion and occupation.

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Iraqis are like any other people. They don't much care when the people who've oppressed them in the past are "abused" by someone else.

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jimb.livejournal.com

But now we've given them the added insult of having foreigners, and women, torturing their people. People in America have been abused by the cops, but if a foreign military was doing it here we'd be even more pissed.

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beretta.livejournal.com

Some guys will pay hard earned money to be humilated and roughed up by a woman! Half of that stuff at Abu Gharib you could see at a drunken frat party.

But seriously, I feel that what happened at the prison was more of a isolated incident not wide spread policy.

Abu-Gharib was a feeding frenzy for the media sharks, and was blown way out of proportion. Nobody died, nobody had their hands cut off or their feet burned by torches. In short, they lived.

The prisoners were as far as we know were rapists, murderers, looters, terrorists or captured in combat with US troops (IE, likely they killed or injured US troops) I don't have much sympathy for these types.

Those soldiers got caught doing something they shouldn't be doing, and they are being held accountable.

In the grand scheme of things, I think the beheadings, kidnappings are far more controversial and disturbing than a bunch of prisoners who were scared and humiliated by a handfull of US soldiers.

I'm sure this means nothing to you, since people like you just love to pull Abu-Gharib out of your hat at any moment, but you never seem to show any concern for the murderered civilian contractors, or Iraqi civilians being killed by these terrorists that are trying to disrupt Iraqi's future.

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haveaball.livejournal.com

you actually believes he CARES if Iraq has "freedom?"

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mmmmjournal.livejournal.com

Very much so. Have a little faith in your president and his genuine concern for the best interests of America and the rest of the world.

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fleaplus.livejournal.com

Yes, even if it's only for geopolitical reasons.

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The Iraqis are lucky like that.

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The polarization this country faces doesn't give the President the choice of admitting mistakes. If JFK faces similar opposition, there's no way he would have admitted anything and would have layed the blame at Eisenhower's feet, which is where it probably belonged.

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id argue that the pressure to be infallable comes mostly from within the administration. if bush made a statement saying 'we can admit that we made a mistake. we were wrong, and we are mature enough to admit it' those who would criticize him for it will criticize him regardless. it would speak to most people.

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if i recall correctly, the president, many years before being elected, once stated that "I will never apologize for the actions of the United States. Never."

like i stated earlier, liberals on this board need to read "Don't think of an elephant" because it puts all of this in perspective and helps a liberal really understand how this thought process works.

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Liberals also need ideas which are less than 40 years old.

Supply-side economics, Star Wars, Democratic Realism, Social Security reform...all of the new political ideas since Johnson's War on Poverty have come from conservatives, especially in the last 20 years.

Hell, many ideas the Republicans propose and the Democrats oppose have already been implemented in socialist European countries. Sweden has school choice and privatized Social Security.

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fleaplus.livejournal.com

if i recall correctly, the president, many years before being elected, once stated that "I will never apologize for the actions of the United States. Never."

Do you happen to know the context of that quote? I couldn't find it on google.

like i stated earlier, liberals on this board need to read "Don't think of an elephant" because it puts all of this in perspective and helps a liberal really understand how this thought process works.

Yeah, I've heard really good things about it. I hope to read it whenever I have the time.

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There is no infallability in the administration. If something isn't working, they'll change policies. What they won't do is admit that they were wrong. That's because anytime they've come close to doing so, the Democrats have taken the opportunity to score as many political points as possible.

This isn't a matter of mturity. It's simply a matter of seeing the political reality for what it is. Bush won the election having not admitting having done anything wrong and I really don't think he cares about impressing you.

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well first of all, i know he doesnt care. thats one of the things that makes him a bad president.

but the whole thing about 'scoring points' is exactly whats wrong with this government. a president who is more concerned about the political score isnt one who can effectly make policy.

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well first of all, i know he doesnt care. thats one of the things that makes him a bad president.

Says you. Liberals didn't like Reagan either, but scholars keep selecting him as one of the best presidents EVER.

but the whole thing about 'scoring points' is exactly whats wrong with this government. a president who is more concerned about the political score isnt one who can effectly make policy.

Scoring political points is what politicians do. Bush knows he has to raise political capital and use it to achieve his agenda. Any politician who doesn't do the same has no place in public office.

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thats one of the things that makes him a bad president.

your missing the point of this. the central part of the social contract between rulers and the ruled is that the rulers look to the well-being of those ruled. the fact that the ruler has disregard for me violates the contract.

Any politician who doesn't do the same has no place in public office.

in my perfect dream world people who arent consumed by greed and ambition can succeed as politicians. although in my perfect dream world im a pro football player, so go figure. i guess im just a hippy idealist on this one :).

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fleaplus.livejournal.com

in my perfect dream world people who arent consumed by greed and ambition can succeed as politicians.

It's not necessarily that. To achieve what they think is "right" and "best for the people," a politician needs political capital.

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beretta.livejournal.com

News Flash...

Bush DID apologize for Abu-Gharib, he apologized to the King of Jordan and it was televised allover arab networks.

But I'm sure you'll find some way to diminish the fact that Bush did apologize.

http://www.masnet.org/news.asp?id=1192

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chrisfrap.livejournal.com

yeah about Abu-Ghraib....Screw the Geneva Convention

That was a brilliant idea, other countries love it when you torture their soldiers, insurgents and so forth.
God Bless America for having the marbles to mothball the premier document on Wartime Civil Rights.

Besides myself, are there any other draft age young men (and women) that would love to be torutured at the hands of another country?

*please note extreme sarcasm*

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The Geneva Conventions have done nothing for American soldiers held prisoner by other countries or terrorist groups. They've always been mistreated, at the minimum, and usually been tortured and killed in manners which make Abu Graib look like an S+M club.

As for the Iraqis, they look at the Baathists and terrorists held in Abu Graib and laugh, especially those who were held in the prison under Saddam. I know, I've seen them do it on camera.

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"They did it first, so it's okay." Sounds like some things you hear from squabling children. Of course not everybody is going to follow the rules of warfare, but that doesn't make it okay for us to do it. If that were the case, we should be using suicide bombers and hijacked planes to blow up civilians.

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