Actually, I have mostly seen it used by POC as an excuse to scream at me, just like the tripe about "all whites are racist" is used to scream at me. Too many local "activists" are very, VERY political, very angry, very aggressive, see anyone with white skin as the devil, and are not shy about saying so. Nothing I do or say mollifies them or stems the hatred. I just have to walk away from them, and avoid anyone I see giving me that suspicious-hateful glare. I just can't take anymore.
Yet mentioning that gets typical LJ-assholes coming out of the woodwork going "now you know how we feel! Walk it off, bitch." As if their hating on me would increase my compassion instead of fatiguing it further.
I am a short, disabled, borderline agorophobic, shit-poor woman with severe anxiety disorder and a terror of confrontation. Half of those who have intimidated and attacked me verbally (and once physically) have been large, non-disabled, MEN wearing clothes and jewelry I could never afford. Male privilege, abled privilege, and the privilege of wealth don't exist to people like that--but oh boy, WHITE PRIVILEGE!!!!!!!!!! is something they can never stop rubbing in people's faces. Even if we don't deserve it and are as badly off as they are--or worse--and just can't take being yelled at anymore.
Every time I get attacked, screamed at, or babbled at by some smug bigot who thinks they have my number because of my skin color, I lose a little of my sympathy for the politically-hypersensitive, mean-spirited variety of POC. I can't help it. I'm already in pain to the point where suicide looks like an option. I don't need or deserve to be attacked by someone who is just looking for a convenient white target when I'm NOT racist, have precious little "privilege" and have never hurt anyone involved.
Your bluntness, Witchipoo, is your way of making people hate you on your terms, rather than theirs. You pretty much figure, "I'll make them hate me, on my terms and under my control--before they can hate me on their terms."
I've seen plenty of ideologues (not just feminists) do this. They get hated, all right--not always to their satisfaction.
You'd deserve pity, if you weren't as full of viciousness as a rabid dog. But then "pity, kindness, gentleness, empathy = weakness" in your books. You must've a had a terrible childhood.
By the way, I'm fairly immune to your and Robert's BS, but I can't stand by and watch you and your little Swiss shadow steamroll over the weaker kids on the playground.
Maybe you missed when I said "that's the sociological definition"? White privilege is a component of institutionalized racism, but that's not the entire story.
In many circles (I think it came from the academic definition) racial prejudice is the term for general hatred in attitudes and actions based on race, and can be perpetrated by any group. The term "racism" is instead reserved for racial prejudice that has the element of institutionalization and systematic power behind it.
I tend to use "racial prejudice" and "institutionalized racism" instead, because white people get really angry when you tell them they can be racist because they have white privilege and institutional power but that black people can only be prejudiced, and they ignore the bulk of what people are saying. Somehow even when it's explained people tend to skip over the explanation and think that you're saying that ethnic minorities can't hate and even cause violence based on race. And I just don't feel like dealing with that most of the time.
I appreciate that it is the sociological definition. However, I am not racist, regardless of people wanting to slap that label on me for whatever reason. The label is fucking well offensive, especially to someone who experiences bigotry of other sorts on a daily basis and KNOWS the difference between someone who is a bigot and someone who is merely "privileged". I treat members of every race with the same basic respect--until they act like douchebags or start hating on me. Then I disrespect them individually--as douchebags. Right now, I am under assault by douchebags. I don't actually care what race they are.
As for white privilege--yes, it exists, like all sorts of other privileges. It sucks, and I do not support it or let myself internalize it. However, "white privilege" is no fucking excuse to attack every white person who protests being stereotyped as a bigot. I have no energy left to deal with hysterical, frothing-at-the-mouth jackholes who want to pound me with the "racist" stamp until I submit to it. You talk to me like a human being, so I'm willing to explain myself and my views. They don't, so they can go jump in a woodchipper.
I tend to use "racial prejudice" and "institutionalized racism" instead, because white people get really angry when you tell them they can be racist because they have white privilege and institutional power
You said:
I am not racist
See? You proved my point. You immediately went into knee-jerk mode. You didn't consider that the meaning of the word changed, because you just don't like the word and don't want to be referred to with that word. Note that under this separate definition of racism no one is calling you a bigot - just saying that you (like most white people) benefit from a system of institutionalized advantages and privileges. That's exactly why I don't use those terms.
As for white privilege--yes, it exists, like all sorts of other privileges. It sucks, and I do not support it or let myself internalize it
I'd have to say that if you live in any Western society (most societies now due to globalization, but any Western society especially) that's probably untrue. We all internalize it; it's subtle and implicit and hard to detect.
However, "white privilege" is no fucking excuse to attack every white person who protests being stereotyped as a bigot.
There are two problematic assumptions here on your part:
1) That using this definition of "racism", and then applying it to white people, is tantamount to an "attack" on white people. It's not.
2) That using this definition of white people paints all white people as bigots. It doesn't.
I have to say that I don't like being called 'a racist' either. Even though I accept your argument in general terms and accept that I may have internalised some racial prejudice, I still don't think of myself as 'a racist'
I wrote something about that recently: linky (http://wight1984.livejournal.com/115787.html#cutid4)
If you don't like to think of yourself as 'a racist' but you accept that you benefit from institutionalized racism, that's just because you don't like the word racist. Which in itself is okay, I think it just requires or should spark some examination in individuals: Why don't I like being called a 'racist' even if I can accept that I benefit from institutionalized racism?
Unfortunately people rarely engage in that kind of self-examination, they just froth at the mouth.
I think it's because the most popular use does not just mean 'anyone who benefits from racism'.
If someone asks me 'Are you a racist?' and I say 'Yes' without any further explanation then what my admission communicates is a lot more nasty and vile than 'I benefit from institutionalised racism'. It's a socially sensitive question anyway so I don't want to have to spend my time justifying an atypical and controversial definition every time the subject comes up :oP
It's all about use and meaning. Words are truly defined by use and so if I try to inject academic definitions into common use then I'll just create misunderstanding and make myself look bad and I don't want that.
So, when a person asks me 'Are you a racist?' then I'm going to answer the question as it was meant.
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 03:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 06:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 07:32 pm (UTC)Yet mentioning that gets typical LJ-assholes coming out of the woodwork going "now you know how we feel! Walk it off, bitch." As if their hating on me would increase my compassion instead of fatiguing it further.
I am a short, disabled, borderline agorophobic, shit-poor woman with severe anxiety disorder and a terror of confrontation. Half of those who have intimidated and attacked me verbally (and once physically) have been large, non-disabled, MEN wearing clothes and jewelry I could never afford. Male privilege, abled privilege, and the privilege of wealth don't exist to people like that--but oh boy, WHITE PRIVILEGE!!!!!!!!!! is something they can never stop rubbing in people's faces. Even if we don't deserve it and are as badly off as they are--or worse--and just can't take being yelled at anymore.
Every time I get attacked, screamed at, or babbled at by some smug bigot who thinks they have my number because of my skin color, I lose a little of my sympathy for the politically-hypersensitive, mean-spirited variety of POC. I can't help it. I'm already in pain to the point where suicide looks like an option. I don't need or deserve to be attacked by someone who is just looking for a convenient white target when I'm NOT racist, have precious little "privilege" and have never hurt anyone involved.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 08:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 08:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 09:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 09:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 09:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 09:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 10:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 10:08 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 09:50 pm (UTC)Your bluntness, Witchipoo, is your way of making people hate you on your terms, rather than theirs. You pretty much figure, "I'll make them hate me, on my terms and under my control--before they can hate me on their terms."
I've seen plenty of ideologues (not just feminists) do this. They get hated, all right--not always to their satisfaction.
You'd deserve pity, if you weren't as full of viciousness as a rabid dog. But then "pity, kindness, gentleness, empathy = weakness" in your books. You must've a had a terrible childhood.
By the way, I'm fairly immune to your and Robert's BS, but I can't stand by and watch you and your little Swiss shadow steamroll over the weaker kids on the playground.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-09 03:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 07:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 09:43 pm (UTC)That was in no way sarcastic, BTW. That was a genuine
:(
no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 10:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 09:46 pm (UTC)In many circles (I think it came from the academic definition) racial prejudice is the term for general hatred in attitudes and actions based on race, and can be perpetrated by any group. The term "racism" is instead reserved for racial prejudice that has the element of institutionalization and systematic power behind it.
I tend to use "racial prejudice" and "institutionalized racism" instead, because white people get really angry when you tell them they can be racist because they have white privilege and institutional power but that black people can only be prejudiced, and they ignore the bulk of what people are saying. Somehow even when it's explained people tend to skip over the explanation and think that you're saying that ethnic minorities can't hate and even cause violence based on race. And I just don't feel like dealing with that most of the time.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-08 10:33 pm (UTC)As for white privilege--yes, it exists, like all sorts of other privileges. It sucks, and I do not support it or let myself internalize it. However, "white privilege" is no fucking excuse to attack every white person who protests being stereotyped as a bigot. I have no energy left to deal with hysterical, frothing-at-the-mouth jackholes who want to pound me with the "racist" stamp until I submit to it. You talk to me like a human being, so I'm willing to explain myself and my views. They don't, so they can go jump in a woodchipper.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-09 03:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-09 04:32 pm (UTC)You said:
I am not racist
See? You proved my point. You immediately went into knee-jerk mode. You didn't consider that the meaning of the word changed, because you just don't like the word and don't want to be referred to with that word. Note that under this separate definition of racism no one is calling you a bigot - just saying that you (like most white people) benefit from a system of institutionalized advantages and privileges. That's exactly why I don't use those terms.
As for white privilege--yes, it exists, like all sorts of other privileges. It sucks, and I do not support it or let myself internalize it
I'd have to say that if you live in any Western society (most societies now due to globalization, but any Western society especially) that's probably untrue. We all internalize it; it's subtle and implicit and hard to detect.
However, "white privilege" is no fucking excuse to attack every white person who protests being stereotyped as a bigot.
There are two problematic assumptions here on your part:
1) That using this definition of "racism", and then applying it to white people, is tantamount to an "attack" on white people. It's not.
2) That using this definition of white people paints all white people as bigots. It doesn't.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-09 01:22 am (UTC)I wrote something about that recently: linky (http://wight1984.livejournal.com/115787.html#cutid4)
no subject
Date: 2009-10-09 04:29 pm (UTC)Unfortunately people rarely engage in that kind of self-examination, they just froth at the mouth.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-09 04:41 pm (UTC)If someone asks me 'Are you a racist?' and I say 'Yes' without any further explanation then what my admission communicates is a lot more nasty and vile than 'I benefit from institutionalised racism'. It's a socially sensitive question anyway so I don't want to have to spend my time justifying an atypical and controversial definition every time the subject comes up :oP
It's all about use and meaning. Words are truly defined by use and so if I try to inject academic definitions into common use then I'll just create misunderstanding and make myself look bad and I don't want that.
So, when a person asks me 'Are you a racist?' then I'm going to answer the question as it was meant.