(no subject)

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Comments

[blueduck37.livejournal.com]

Now this is a good cartoon. Kudos.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

hmmm... "The only good cartoon is the cartoon that I agree with?"

[blueduck37.livejournal.com]

No, this cartoon is good because it simplifies the issue in a honest way... here, you have the insurance industry literally kicking people out (to their death?) for a series of reasons that aren't the people's fault... and then when Obama swoops in with the intention of rescuing those people, the insurance industry has the audacity to complain that they're the ones being hurt here.

It reminds me of something Paul Begala said on the Bill Maher about the self-contradictory nature of the anti-public option arguments. On the one hand, they're insisting that a public plan would suck, and then at the same time, they're crying crocodile tears and saying "Ohh this plan will be too popular and effective, little ol' Aetna could never compete with that!".

Of course, we wouldn't need a public option if private insurance was affordable, portable (meaning not tied to your job, etc), and didn't through people overboard and let them die to save/make a buck. It's a fucked up, inefficient system. Real reform would be single-payer, but that's off the table, so the public option (really, that word shouldn't be lost in the debate) is being debated here as a compromise means of reform. And still people are ranting and raving. It's insane.

So, this, to me, is the debate in a nutshell. So, kudos.

[camac.livejournal.com]

Well put. :)

[jblaque.livejournal.com]

+1.

[red-pill.livejournal.com]

this is gona seam odd, cos it kinda bugs me, but...

is that L?

[camac.livejournal.com]

No.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Ok can we reform the healthcare without using a public option?

[blueduck37.livejournal.com]

I don't believe so, no. I'm with Howard Dean in his sentiment in this Esquire interview-

ESQ: Speaking of the Obama plan, you’re even stronger than he has been lately in support of the public plan. You say that without it, it’s not reform.

HD: It’s not. It’s a waste of time. Don’t pretend you’re going to do health-insurance reform unless you’re really going to change the system. The discussions in the Senate have not been about changing the system.

Nothing short of a public option will change the system, and/or provide the competition/incentives necessary for the private insurance companies to get their act together. Anything less is just window dressing.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

I guess that's one of our differences. I do believe that we need a reform and I do believe that Obama's plan is socialism.

On a bit different topic - How did you like this news http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124699680303307309.html.

[blueduck37.livejournal.com]

On a bit different topic - How did you like this news http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124699680303307309.html.

How do I feel about Obama acting like a Bush/Cheney Republican on terror policies? Pretty pissed off, actually.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Have you ever thought that it is the right thing to do and that it is legal to do so?

[dwer.livejournal.com]

not in any country where the rule of law prevails.

[blueduck37.livejournal.com]

I have thought about the other side of the debate (a lot actually.... FYI, I was in the World Trade Center on 9/11, I knew what's at stake here), and I remain certain that the Bush/Cheney position is wrong wrong wrong, even if enough scumbags have convinced Obama to continue it for now.

A democracy's ideals count most when they are inconvenient. I am a big fan of the old Ben Franklin quote that "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." And it's an illusion of safety too. I have seen no evidence that warrantless wiretapping and rendition and torture have done anything to make us safer... in fact, I'd be happy to make the case for how the opposite is true if I had the time.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Wait... hold your horses article said nothing about warrant-less wiretapping or torture.
It's about after all the pre-election yapping Obama actually had to take a look at the people we are holding there. I guess the reality smacked him across the face.

[blueduck37.livejournal.com]

My feeling remains this in regards to people we are detaining... if we actually have evidence they are terrorists, put them on trial in a U.S. court (or maybe an international war court in the few extreme cases, like KSM), present the evidence, and they will be sent to the Haige or Supermax or someplace like that. If you don't have any evidence to make a case against them (as is the case with many who were just randomly pulled out of Afghanistan, or rendered in cases of mistaken identity), then return them to their home countries. No more indefinite/preventive detention. It's unamerican.

[redheadrat.livejournal.com]

I would swap the helicopters

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

How are insurers consistently saving peoples' lives?

How is Obama consistently abandoning people to die?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

This.

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

this is funny because the clock while stopped told the right time for once.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

you are not even trying anymore :( we've heard that one already

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

And it's true once again.

[capthek.livejournal.com]

I need to read more from this artist.

[jlc20thmaine.livejournal.com]

If health insurance or health care was a right this might be true.

[jblaque.livejournal.com]

Still waiting for you to tell us how Medicare screwed you out of $65,000, but I guess it's moot because it wasn't you had no "right" to the coverage, anyway.

[xforge.livejournal.com]

Well, Medicare screwed him because his wife is a doctor, of course.

::blink blink::

[jblaque.livejournal.com]

*falls off chair*

[jlc20thmaine.livejournal.com]

Medicare didn't pay for that amount of procedures.

[zombiesmustdie.livejournal.com]

so they screwed you out of $65,000 by screwing you out of $65,000. I see, makes perfect sense. Answers that good and its a wonder you don't get any respect around here.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

But healthcare is not a right, so why do you care what they did or didn't do for you?

[red-pill.livejournal.com]

are you saying that we should let people die of prevntble and curable desises becous thay cant pay for it? that through inaction we should alowe the a preventble tragdy to occer?

not to mention even those who do pay are being screwed over.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Well at least it should be affordable. But for that we need to make sure all players follow rules and laws. And we don't need government insurance company to do that.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

you sure you meant to post this? It's a little off your ideological path, don't you think?

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Actually it is. I always said that healthcare system has to be reformed and I always said that Obama's plan is socialism.

[dwer.livejournal.com]

someday, you may even learn what the word means!

[jessica-leah.livejournal.com]

Despite mostly agreeing with the sentiment, I actually think this is a crappy cartoon. You shouldn't need that many text labels to make your point.

Also, private insurance companies are not the devil. Nor are doctors. Nor hospitals.

It's not that simple.

[red-pill.livejournal.com]

i dont know, some of the stuff ive seen about for profit private insurnces is a nightmare. termanting peoples plans becous thayve got cancer? denal of care is activly encoraged in some for profit insurnse componeys.

[jessica-leah.livejournal.com]

Oh Hell there is some pretty dirty stuff going on. No doubt about it. I just mean it's not as if 100% of any group (HMO, PPC, or patient) is innocent/guilty.

The trick is finding and fixing the problems, not holding one group solely responsible and meting out some arbitrary punishment.

[blueduck37.livejournal.com]

A public plan isn't "punishment", it's competition that will force them to get their act together and better serve their customers.

[jessica-leah.livejournal.com]

I am in favor of a public plan. I'm just against demonizing anyone in this F'ed up system.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

I'm almost ready to place a bet with you that if they set up the public plan they will be pumping money into it until most private companies are out of business.

[red-pill.livejournal.com]

the public plan would be funded by fees not taxes.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

trust me :D

And just hte other day they were discussing the option of taxing healthcare benefits.

[red-pill.livejournal.com]

the helth care plan mentioned would be funded by premiums tho. thats its point. its a helth care plan run by the goverment, in the same fashion as any other helth insure. sept it'll cost a fraction due to a massive drop in over heads.

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Agree... we do need healthcare reform just not intorducing government into it. We have plenty of consumers laws that health insurance companies do not follow.

[donolectic.livejournal.com]

Aren't consumer laws a form of government regulation? If you think about it, there's a lot of government in healthcare already - states regulate the insurance companies, there are required qualifications for doctors, new medications have to be tested... government is already involved with healthcare.

Also, which consumer laws are insurance companies breaking? This is the first time I've heard this argument, so I'd like to know. Shouldn't the government be stepping up enforcement then like you commented they're doing with medicaid in another post?

[merig00.livejournal.com]

Read this: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1187-Health-Reform-Who-Are-They-Trying-To-Fool.html

Author makes several strange assumptions but overall it's a very interesting read.