I love when people pretend that putting someone in prison is doing them a favor.
I'm so ridiculously ashamed of our government right now. This insanely political move is nothing but a plot to keep in these politicians in office. We'll put pot smokers INTO jail, but want to keep terrorists out of them. Brilliant.
While the laws criminalizing pot may be stupid, there's a big difference between imprisoning a convicted criminal and imprisoning a suspected terrorist. One of those two things requires a trial and allows appeal.
welcome to... I was going to say 1945, but even then there were trials. Seems the perception of what Justice means has deteriorated in some people to a medieval stage.
Seriously... how much of a cowardly dumbass is Harry Reid (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/the-incoherent-cowardice-of-harry-reid.html)?
I'll ask this of you (http://community.livejournal.com/politicartoons/1269759.html?thread=25378815#t25378815), too. Let's have a discussion, not OMG BUSH IS HITLER/*pats you on the head* bullshit.
Under pressure from Republicans and concerned about the politics of relocating terrorism suspects to U.S. soil...
Do you, merig, agree with the idea that there's a problem with relocating them to "U.S. soil"? What is the difference between a regular prison that we put convicted murderers and crime bosses into and a prison that we put potential murderers and crime bosses into? Are our prisons faulty in some way?
If these guys are such dangerous people, why can't we try them? We have regular courts, we have courts martial, even a secret kangaroo court. Wouldn't it have been a good PR move for the Bush administration to say "Here, we have these guys, and they're bad people. We've proven that they did this and that and the other, and if we hadn't caught them they could have done much worse!", instead of the politics of fear boogieman-under-your-bed handwaving stuff? What's the political point in keeping them in limbo, other than leaving a gigantic bruise on our collective integrity and letting the real terrorists think "hey, they're just grabbing random guys like my cousin! We gotta fight 'em!"?
I'm not asking this stuff rhetorically, I really want to know. What's the thought process, here?
Transparency. It would be easier to prevent such things as torture or holding them without cause, without access to a lawyer, or any other rights violations that have or could have been going on in some military detainment camp in another country.
I have two problems with Guantanamo terrorists being mixed with general population of US prison: 1) they will spread radical islam in our prisons. 2) we'll have to release them eventually and most probably on US soil.
Does it bother me that we have Gitmo? A little - it is politicized too much and we don't have all the facts who exactly is in there. Take for example the guys from anti-chinese terrorist group. We cannot prosecute them because they didn't fight against us. We cannot give them to China because China will torture and hang them. We cannot release them into USA because they are radical islamist terrorists. As for their legal status - they are not civilians so our criminal law does have to apply to them. They are not enemy combatants since they do not fly colors of any army, so no conventions apply to them. They are just like pirates - you probably heard news that many times navies would let pirates go because they do not want the headache for themselves with figuring out their legal status. We have that headache but noone will have political balls to figure it out. Personally I don't see any easy way out. If they are hardcore terrorists and we persecute them and place them in prison - we'll just get more radical muslims in our prison system. But that's just my opinion and I would like to see Gitmo go.
People keep forgetting that we've been imprisoning terrorists within our own borders for decades now.
A few examples, you say? OK: Eric Robert Rudolph. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Ted Kaczynski. Andrew Philip Kehoe.
Once imprisoned they ceased to be a problem. We've already proven that we can effectively and safely imprison this kind of thug, so what's the problem?
On the off chance something goes wrong and those terrorists escape, they will obviously only do damage in the country they're released into despite being imprisoned to begin with for hating on the United States, and thus once again the American public is saved. I mean who cares if a bunch of Cubans get killed?
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timeasmymeasure
Re: hurrrr
Date: 2009-05-20 07:19 pm (UTC)Re: hurrrr
Date: 2009-05-20 11:13 pm (UTC)Re: hurrrr
From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 07:07 pm (UTC)I'm so ridiculously ashamed of our government right now. This insanely political move is nothing but a plot to keep in these politicians in office. We'll put pot smokers INTO jail, but want to keep terrorists out of them. Brilliant.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 07:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 09:46 pm (UTC)Like for being brown?
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 07:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 07:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 07:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 08:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 08:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 08:01 pm (UTC)Just... wow.
So...Bush was right.
Date: 2009-05-20 09:50 pm (UTC)Re: So...Bush was right.
Date: 2009-05-20 09:54 pm (UTC)Why are we a bunch of hysterical pussies (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_05/018275.php)?
no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 10:04 pm (UTC)Duplicated
Date: 2009-05-20 10:10 pm (UTC)Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:Re: Duplicated
From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 10:02 pm (UTC)Do you, merig, agree with the idea that there's a problem with relocating them to "U.S. soil"? What is the difference between a regular prison that we put convicted murderers and crime bosses into and a prison that we put potential murderers and crime bosses into? Are our prisons faulty in some way?
If these guys are such dangerous people, why can't we try them? We have regular courts, we have courts martial, even a secret kangaroo court. Wouldn't it have been a good PR move for the Bush administration to say "Here, we have these guys, and they're bad people. We've proven that they did this and that and the other, and if we hadn't caught them they could have done much worse!", instead of the politics of fear boogieman-under-your-bed handwaving stuff? What's the political point in keeping them in limbo, other than leaving a gigantic bruise on our collective integrity and letting the real terrorists think "hey, they're just grabbing random guys like my cousin! We gotta fight 'em!"?
I'm not asking this stuff rhetorically, I really want to know. What's the thought process, here?
no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 10:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 10:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-21 01:40 am (UTC)Does it bother me that we have Gitmo? A little - it is politicized too much and we don't have all the facts who exactly is in there. Take for example the guys from anti-chinese terrorist group. We cannot prosecute them because they didn't fight against us. We cannot give them to China because China will torture and hang them. We cannot release them into USA because they are radical islamist terrorists. As for their legal status - they are not civilians so our criminal law does have to apply to them. They are not enemy combatants since they do not fly colors of any army, so no conventions apply to them. They are just like pirates - you probably heard news that many times navies would let pirates go because they do not want the headache for themselves with figuring out their legal status. We have that headache but noone will have political balls to figure it out. Personally I don't see any easy way out. If they are hardcore terrorists and we persecute them and place them in prison - we'll just get more radical muslims in our prison system. But that's just my opinion and I would like to see Gitmo go.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
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From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:Some links.
From:no subject
Date: 2009-05-20 10:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-21 01:37 am (UTC)A few examples, you say? OK: Eric Robert Rudolph. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Ted Kaczynski. Andrew Philip Kehoe.
Once imprisoned they ceased to be a problem. We've already proven that we can effectively and safely imprison this kind of thug, so what's the problem?
no subject
Date: 2009-05-21 11:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-22 12:14 am (UTC)