Rework

[hittokiri-korru.livejournal.com]

This is just a rework of an older cartoon, the satire is almost completely in the punctuation. I'll be sad if somebody already come up with this though.

Comments

[tbonestg.livejournal.com]

So...exactly what terrorist attacks have the Alaskan Independence Party committed?

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

They believe in the renunciation of the US constitution and secession from the US, much in the same style of confederate states in 1860. An organization that agitates for such beliefs is generally watched by the US ovt for possible violations of the US Code.

US Code Title 18, PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2383

§ 2383. Rebellion or insurrection
How Current is This?
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

--http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002383----000-.html


Republic of Texas members (similar group, bt in TX), have been tracked by federal authorities for as much.

With the Alaskan Independence Party, there is also the question o the murder of Joe Vogler. In any event, it is by definition an anti-American party. It advocates treason and secession, both forbidden by the US Code and subject to "seditious conspiracy" investigations.

Now, imagine everyone involved in this had brown skin and Mid Eastern names instead of having goatees and names like Todd Palin.

[tbonestg.livejournal.com]

So...exactly what terrorist attacks have the Alaskan Independence Party committed?

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

Advocating the forcible secession of a part of the US from the US.

You don't have o throw a bomb into an abortion clinic or blow up the federal bilding in Oklahoma City like a white paramilitary/"militia" movement to be a terrorist. You can be can be considered such for conspiring to commit seditious acts against the government of the US. To wit:

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2383

§ 2383. Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002383----000-.html

In the past, less than advocating the overthrow of the US has been required for an organization to get on the State Dept.'s terrorism list. What would you call the organization? Clearly, they violate the law under the "CHAPTER 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES" section of the US code. Not like taking money from a cash register or anything.

[tbonestg.livejournal.com]

In the past, less than advocating the overthrow of the US has been required for an organization to get on the State Dept.'s terrorism list.

Yep. All you have to do is commit acts of terrorism.

So...exactly what terrorist attacks have the Alaskan Independence Party committed?

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

From the Dept. of Splitting Hairs: Terrorist attacks? I dunno.

Terrorists acts? Plenty. (See my previous comments.)

Don't argue with me about it; argue with the law of the land. The point of the law is to catch such people before they get to the point of committing attacks. But terrorist acts, the AIP has done plenty of, by definition of their own party's platform.

[tbonestg.livejournal.com]

Secession is not an act of terrorism.

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if reading is your weak spot, but:

Whoever incites [..] insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002383----000-.html

That's pretty clear. Don't know how it could be made much clearer.

Again, if you don't like this, take it up with your congressman, not me.

[tbonestg.livejournal.com]

Treason != terrorism

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

More evidence, even if you are following a facts-be-damned line of thinking, from that horribly leftist website Boing Boing!

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/09/alaskan-independence.html

(http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/09/alaskan-independence.html)

Video at site above.

[tbonestg.livejournal.com]

So...an organization's founder is murdered by someone who was not acting on behalf of the organization...and you think that's an act of terrorism?

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

I've already detailed what the acts of terrorism were before the above info, the botched plastics explosives deal that killed the founder of the AIP Party that Todd Palin was a member o and who had spoken, sponsored by Iran, before the UN. Most Americans, for better or worse, would have seen half the evidence I've shown here, and if the skin colors had ben different, and the last names sounded a little bit funnier, I doubt they would have theese suddenly Olympian standards of judiciality you're evincing here. I congratulate you on requiring such an incredibly severe buren of proof before casting the first stone -- bravo, my hat is off. If only more Americans had these Herculean standards of judiciousness.

Most of the times, such standards of guilt are selectively applied. The out-group requires way less evidence than I've shown you here, to merit some sort of guilt or suspicion. (Much less a visit for Dept. of Homeland Security) you seem fine unless I can present a video of a secret AIP of folks killing Americans. Even then my guess is youd wonder about the lighting, where and when the video was shot, and besides, how are we to know what really happened, etc. ? If you're predisposed, facts be damned, to just think a certain way, no matter what, just say so, so you're not wasting either of our time. You can be like Joe the Plumber and just basically pre-decide all you ever want to know, and go through life that way.

[tbonestg.livejournal.com]

Terrorism is an act of violence. Nothing you have put forward so far indicates that the organization committed any acts of violence.

As for "support from Iran", I think Obama has recieved endorsements from HAMAS and Iran this time around.

[adrunkencadence.livejournal.com]

There is more to Terrorism than acts of violence. Acts of violence have to be planned, weighed for pros and cons, and supporters must organize. Do you think Hamas simply congealed in a pond somewhere and in 24 hours took the geographic middle east by storm? No, you silly fool. They organized for years previous and have been around for decades.

So the AIP isn't to where Hamas is yet. Key word, yet. Thus they are cut from the same cloth.

[wight1984.livejournal.com]

I'm not supporter of Republicans or Palin specifically, but I think tbonestg is right, you've failed to show anything that reasonably counts as Terrorism.

Ad vocation is not terrorism, that simple. There simply seems to have been no acts of terrorism committed.

What you seem to be suggesting is that they might be planning such acts? Is that correct?

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

Pending what the deal with the plastic explosives was, yes, they have done things that are illegal under the TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES. section of the US Code, the upshot is which those gulty of doing such are forbidden from holding office, plus jail time, and/or a fine.

The definition of "terrorism" is still hotly contested. F-16s are a rich man's suicide bomb etc. Wikipedia isn't wrong when it says: "Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.[1] There is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism.[2][3] Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants."

Conspiracy to commit treasnous or seditious acts are clearly illega under federal law, and if you want to split hair and use a much less pejorative sense o the word terrorism, then you are forced to say, okay, according to my "dotted i, and crossed t, exactly precise definition," the AIP has not, so far as can be shown (and I'm sure my opponent here is really interested in whether AIP has committed such acts or not, rather than providing endless apologia for them *ahem*), one is forced back to the sightly less admirable positiont hat they have committed treasonous and seditious acts, which, again, forbid one from holding US office, and which entail jail time and/or steep fines.

That's just an uncontroversial, black and white, on paper, law of the land.

My suspicion is of we caught Palestinian-Americans doing everything I've laid out, there would not be this kind of Olympian standard of reluctance to use the "t" word to describe their activities. But when it's the home team or the in-group, the case must be proven to Herculean standards. Which, personally, I think is a load of utter shit. Right-wing, yahoo, white separatist, Militia movement type terrorism is always underplayed because, hey, it's white guys, etc.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Not just Palestinians....try being Chinese at Gitmo....No charges, but no prospect of release either.

give it up

[i.livejournal.com]

Conspiracy to commit treasonous or seditious acts does not equal the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.

as soon as they do the latter or they give material support to someone who does, you can call them terrorists. for now, the best you can do is call them seditious traitors.

Re: give it up

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't post the cartoon. But, okay, Sarah, pallin' around with seditious traitors -- I'm happy with that.

[wight1984.livejournal.com]

I can assure you that I, speaking for myself only, would not be inclined to call a group of people terrorists until they've performed such acts as would fit the term as vaguely described by wikipedia.

I can agree that intention to commit such acts is just as bad, but it's not terrorism in the same sense that an intention to murder someone doesn't yet make a person a murderer.

I am inclined to agree that it's a huge double-standard that Obama gets attacked on this front but not Palin in any case.

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'll concede you're right.

Based on what I know about the Alaskan Independence Party.

They are secessionist, and believe in the forcible withdrawal of Alaska from the US, renunciation of the US Constitution. I've no doubt if Michelle, Obama's wife, belonged to such an org. (as Palin's hubbie does), we'd never heard the end of it, esp. witht hat juicy Iranian angle that the AIP has (the Iranians gave up their opportunity at the UN t speak so the Alaskan Independence Party could!).

But the Palins' association with this group is still unknown to most people, and he media isn't as keen to report it, for some reason, as they are to tell us about a 2001 telephone call to a radio station where Barack Obama gave a very obtuse, legalistic opinion on redistributive justice (by which he meant allocation and apportionment of federal funds for schools and things like Head Start programs in inner city areas) in the Civil Rights era, which was supposed to be some sort of game changing, horrible, frightening revelation.

[wight1984.livejournal.com]

As a British person I'm not sure I entirely get anti-succession sentiment (and it seems especially ironic in regards to the USA), but yeah, does sound like a double-standard all the same and thus wrong in that regard.

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

There is a similar group here in Texas called "The Republic of Texas":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas_(group)

Groups like these generally want their particular state to secede from the Union, like, say the Quebecois nationalists in Canada, or the Basque separatists in Spain.

These groups in the US tend to be very loony right wing, though. A candidate's spouse belonging to one would, one would think, be sorta big news. But Obama making a phone call to a radio station 7 years ago to make a legal point is more important.

[syndicalist.livejournal.com]

Here is the Wikipedia entry on the group, even:

Republic of Texas (group) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas_(group))

[i.livejournal.com]

damn, he still doesn't get it!

[spamwarrior.livejournal.com]

Interestingly enough, treason is punishable by hanging and makes it impossible for her to hold office.

[tbonestg.livejournal.com]

And it's next to impossible to prosecute.

[i.livejournal.com]

thank you for finally getting to the point.

[cursethedark.livejournal.com]

I think that changing the punctuation takes away the double-meaning and subtlety (well, as much subtlety as can be found in a political cartoon.)

[i.livejournal.com]

it's also grammatically unnecessary