Date: 2008-03-20 02:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thetidebreaks.livejournal.com
And people talk crap about Obama not wearing a flag pin. >_>

Date: 2008-03-20 02:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hacksawbebo.livejournal.com
I am usually not that big of a Bush basher, but that is seriously fucked up. You think the leader of the free world would have more sense and respect for our flag.

Date: 2008-03-20 02:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xforge.livejournal.com
You'd think the leader of the free world could extemporaneously parse a f*cking sentence.

Date: 2008-03-20 02:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
come now. The rules. They do not apply to Him.

Date: 2008-03-20 02:57 am (UTC)

Date: 2008-03-20 03:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
I've heard that he is the Decider.

Date: 2008-03-20 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glenniebun.livejournal.com
That's the word on the street.

Date: 2008-03-20 03:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
We all know he's a man of the people.

As long as you have the green.

Date: 2008-03-20 05:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kip-w.livejournal.com
I just checked, and the word on the street is "XING."

Date: 2008-03-20 06:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glenniebun.livejournal.com
I'd suggest looking again...really close up, right on that word.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2008-03-20 11:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Is this photoshoped? We all know that the news would have been all over this if it was real. The placement of the hands looks off, kinda like one is floating.

Date: 2008-03-20 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
http://soundingcircle.com/newslog2.php/__show_article/_a000195-000407.htm shows that the picture is from at least 2004.
http://irregulartimes.com/flaggingsigns.html includes the paragraphs:

"Most recently, George W. Bush has spilled ink all over the American flag he insists that he is sworn to protect.

A little over a month ago, at a Republican political rally in Livonia, Michigan, George W. Bush signed his name as an autograph on the American flag. He did so not just once, but with several flags brought by his conservative fans solely for that purpose.

The funny thing is that George W. Bush has openly supported efforts by the Republican Congress to pass an amendment to the Constitution that would outlaw not just flag burning, but any "physical desecration" of the American flag."

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/president_bush_defaces_flag/ suggests that this isn't the first time he's signed a flag.

http://www.americablog.com/2006/06/did-george-bush-deface-american-flags.html says he did it in 2003.

http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/lofiversion/index.php/t57243.html this one's just weird.

I'd say it's pretty clear that it's happened, even if this picture happens to be photoshopped, which I don't really know enough about to say.

Date: 2008-03-20 06:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Ok, fair enough. He wrote on the flag. Thats well withing his rights. Now its up to you if that makes you not like him more or less. Or if it even matters. Now it would be hypocritical if you OKed this for other politicians but not condemn it because its Bush.

Date: 2008-03-20 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
Actually, no. It's not within his rights. It's expressly against the law -- and I would feel the same no matter who did it.

And not only is it expressly against the law, but he is a politician who has spoken out AGAINST flag burning -- which is NOT against the law when performed as political speech, and IS an approved method of disposing of a defaced flag!

Date: 2008-03-20 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glenniebun.livejournal.com
Finally, a hook on which to hang impeachment proceedings.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
one might hope it'd be the straw to break the camel's back, but it would appear no such luck.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
I know you want Bush to be the 2nd president impeached but it is not going to happen. Only in your wet dreams.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tubaboy81.livejournal.com
Can't happen. Clinton was the second president to be impeached, Bush would have to be third.

Date: 2008-03-20 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tubaboy81.livejournal.com
Andrew Johnson in the late 1860s.

Date: 2008-03-20 08:08 pm (UTC)

Date: 2008-03-20 07:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glenniebun.livejournal.com
I do? That's news to me. I'm glad you can see my dreams.

(And there've already been two, incidentally.)

Date: 2008-03-20 07:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Please name them? I would actually like to know this.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glenniebun.livejournal.com
Andrew Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Andrew_Johnson)
William Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton)

Date: 2008-03-20 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Fair deal. Someone else mentioned that there were two before Clinton. Is that true?

Date: 2008-03-20 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glenniebun.livejournal.com
No, it's not. President Nixon would surely have been impeached if he hadn't resigned, though, since there were already efforts underway to start proceedings against him before he announced his departure; that's probably what that person was referring to.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2008-03-21 02:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Typical answer. I was corrected. I learned from it. The fact remains that your wet dream of Bush being impeached like Clinton will not happen.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2008-03-22 04:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Its a typical answer because you lost. It was pointed out to you that your wet dream wouldn't come true. So instead of say yeah you are right, you went into attack on something that had nothing to do with the topic to make yourself feel big. You are just mad because you know I am right.

As for my entry in my journal....Do you even know why that is there? Look at the date and figure out what was happening in MA at that time. Then you can talk without looking like an idiot.

Conclusion, you are mad because I am right and you don't like it. Well, come one now, post something else that has nothing to do with Bush NEVER being impeached. LOL. In the words of Obama, or close to the words, You are a typical democrat. HAHA.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Its against the law to deface the flag? Isn't that free speech? Can you give me the law that says this?

Date: 2008-03-20 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
I believe that the flag-code is part of the law. It's possible I'm wrong.

But freedom of speech only applies to POLITICAL speech. I don't think that signing an autograph on a flag is political speech, although I'm sure his lawyers would make that attempt.

Certainly, if not against the law, it's mighty hypocritical of him.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Its not against the law. So it really doesn't matter. The thing that bothers me is that the people who are bitching about it are the ones who burn the flag and wear it as clothing themselves.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
Burning the flag as a political statement is different from burning it as a tinder.

Nuanced people can tell the difference. But then, nuanced people realize that it's his hypocrisy that's the problem, not that he's signing a plastic flag, and that it's what the flag STANDS for that's important, not the piece of fabric itself.

Honestly, I don't get the whole wearing it as clothing bit.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
Either way, no crime was broken. So rational people will drop it.

Date: 2008-03-20 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
no, the crime has survived, unbroken and unbowed.

So. Bitched about Obama not wearing a flag pin lately?

Date: 2008-03-20 08:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
I was actually waiting for that typical response so I could proudly say that I have NEVER bitched about Obama not wearing a flag pin. Believe me or not, thats the honest to God truth.

Date: 2008-03-20 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
more power to you, then.

Date: 2008-03-21 11:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com
The flag code are GUIDELINES for civilians and rules for the military.

It is not a criminal statute.

Date: 2008-03-21 02:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
fair enough. I was wrong.

Still mighty hypocritical.

Date: 2008-03-21 02:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j0kerr.livejournal.com
TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > § 3
§ 3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag
Release date: 2006-03-20

Any person who, within the District of Columbia, in any manner, for exhibition or display, shall place or cause to be placed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, drawing, or any advertisement of any nature upon any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America; or shall expose or cause to be exposed to public view any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign upon which shall have been printed, painted, or otherwise placed, or to which shall be attached, appended, affixed, or annexed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, or drawing, or any advertisement of any nature; or who, within the District of Columbia, shall manufacture, sell, expose for sale, or to public view, or give away or have in possession for sale, or to be given away or for use for any purpose, any article or substance being an article of merchandise, or a receptacle for merchandise or article or thing for carrying or transporting merchandise, upon which shall have been printed, painted, attached, or otherwise placed a representation of any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign, to advertise, call attention to, decorate, mark, or distinguish the article or substance on which so placed shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both, in the discretion of the court....

Heres your actual law. He didn't break it. You lose.

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