[identity profile] pigshitpoet.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] politicartoons
Death Of The Skeksis Emperor

Skeksis Emperor

Good Riddance! Bad Rubbish. We can now take your debt slavery out of circulation.




; )

World Rejoice!

.

Date: 2017-03-23 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] julian-delphik.livejournal.com
Serious question:

Why is globalism a bad thing?

Date: 2017-03-23 01:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donkeyjon.livejournal.com
Globalism is wonderful. However, for much of the first world, globalism means that jobs are leaving to go somewhere where people will do them for cheaper. People who are in those jobs are very unhappy with this state of affairs.

Date: 2017-03-23 03:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donkeyjon.livejournal.com
Because it leads to lower priced goods, provides the chief mechanism for the improvement of poorer countries, and because it is an inevitable result of technological advance. So, it's good because it ends up being beneficial for a ton of people while only harming a relatively small number of people. But, good or evil, it's going to happen regardless. Economic forces make it inevitable.

Date: 2017-03-23 12:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donkeyjon.livejournal.com
However, when you look at the actual effect of globalization, it has been a tremendous positive. India, China, Taiwan, and large swaths of Southeast Asia and South America are economically stronger than they've ever been, and it's almost entirely due to the power of global trade. For that matter, global trade is in the process of dismantling the oppressive regime in China (although the current leadership there is trying desperately to put the chaos back in the box), and creating a middle class there that is demanding a participative government.

Now, that is a net positive regardless of the abuses that you mention. Another is the Wal-Mart effect. The reason Wal-Mart worked is because they could provide goods for lower prices than any of their competitors. They did this by outsourcing manufacturing (primarily to China). Now, they took a huge PR hit for this, but the end consumers who they serve, many of whom are low income families, benefitted greatly from those reduced prices. Again, Wal-Mart has tremendous problems with their treatment of their employees, but without their existence, a lot of those families are going to be worse off. The "mom and pop" stores that Wal-Mart replaced were simply unable to provide goods as cheaply.

In this way, globalization benefits two very different groups of people who are very far apart geographically. This happens regardless of environmental impact, human rights abuses, or corporate greed. It is a natural outcome of technological advance which allows for quick transport of goods across national boundaries. It also results in manufacturing leaving the first world and moving to poorer countries, which is the main complaint that people have with globalization.

Date: 2017-03-23 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donkeyjon.livejournal.com
Those forces you are talking about have nothing to do with globalization. You are talking about corporate greed. I agree that there are massive problems with corporate greed. But those problems occur entirely separate from globalization.

Date: 2017-03-24 02:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donkeyjon.livejournal.com
I'll take a look at it. Always looking for things to read that present viewpoints different from mine.

Date: 2017-03-23 08:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
I'll agree with the first and third of your observations, but "provides the chief mechanism for the improvement of poorer countries"? Nope. That is a pure neoclassical myth, designed specifically to mislead.

I refer you to Ha Joon Chang (http://hajoonchang.net/books/books-i-have-written/)'s Bad Samaritans. (Very interesting details there about how protectionism and government involvement helped jump-start the British wool industry between the reigns of Henry VII and Elizabeth I.)

Date: 2017-03-23 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donkeyjon.livejournal.com
I'll have to take a look at that book, thanks for the recommendation!

I can tell you that what has happened economically in China and India is pretty much entirely a result of global trade. I'm not saying there isn't wide ranging exploitation (as there was in the West during the Industrial Revolution), but the end result is the rise of a middle class.

Date: 2017-03-23 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mexpatriot.livejournal.com
...and the middle class is great for power elites because it will never revolt against them.

Date: 2017-03-24 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donkeyjon.livejournal.com
Actually, the middle class is exactly the group that overthrows power elites. They have enough economic power to want autonomy and property rights, and they are numerous enough to work collectively.

Date: 2017-03-24 12:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
I can tell you that what has happened economically in China and India is pretty much entirely a result of global trade

Yup.... under British rule, when the Brits took just about everything not nailed down and exported that wealth to the sceptre'd Isle. India was one of the most wealthy countries in the world; it's now a basket case. And British rule impoverished China enough to cause, largely, the Revolution.

Winner: Victorian England. Loser: Those guys.

Generally speaking, when a "visitor" has weapons, the wealth leaves the country with the weapons being carried, not from where the weapons were manufactured.
Edited Date: 2017-03-24 12:28 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-03-24 02:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donkeyjon.livejournal.com
Yes. And now, under self-rule, they are quickly outstripping the West in economic power.

Date: 2017-03-23 04:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] julian-delphik.livejournal.com
I didn't say it was a good thing; but it seems like you use globalist in a pejorative sense, so I am wondering why.

I didn't make the post; I made a comment. Can you defend your post? My comment, being a question without suppositions, requires no defense.

Date: 2017-03-23 01:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
rolls eyes.

Date: 2017-03-23 04:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
hard to keep conspiracy stories straight I guess

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