Seeing violence done against those you hate will 'feel good' to many people; that's a common human trait and I don't think that people should be ashamed of that.
For me personally, I'm quite violence-averse on an emotional and gut level, so I don't tend to experience schadenfreude. If and when I feel any level of satisfaction in another's pain, it tends to be a fairly bitter and twisted feeling that I can't enjoy in any celebrity or happy way.
Those kind of emotional and gut reactions aren't the kind of thing that I think a person can be talked or reasoned into though; you feel it or you don't.
Hence, I'm more interested in ideological stances on violence and practical assessments of violence as a political means. My own judgements are that violence (of this type in this context) do poorly on both metrics and thus is best avoided.
An admirable stance that I cannot fault. Now how about a compromise. Let's not punch Donald Trump, let's throw a cream pie in his face during a press conference, and toot an old car horn - HONKA HONKA - just after it hits.
If Spencer had a custard pie thrown at his face rather than a punch, then that would I think that would have been a lot more effective.
If the aim is to discredit the ideas then it seems better to make people like Spencer and Milo look ridiculous rather than punch them. We need to engineer the situation so that these people are looking like fringe lunatics who deserve derision, not sympathy or support.
Bit late for that to work well with Trump, although a cream pie to the face is unlikely to make things much worse.
None of this really does a lot to address liberal objections regarding 'free market of ideas' and all that kind of thing still aren't met, but most people aren't liberals so I don't expect that to hold much sway.
All that petty stuff isn't going to accomplish anything positive for your ideals. It'll just turn into a circle jerk among liberals while more people jump off that sinking ship.
Recent events have shown that shining a light on the beliefs of the 'alt-right' can be effective in itself.
The Berkeley protests were ineffective and were partly responsible for Milo's book becoming a best seller. However, media attention and public discussion of Milo's comments on paedophilia have cause that book to be cancelled. It's good to see some kind of success for the 'free market of ideas'.
Either way, Liberalism seems to be a far way from dead. Despite the authoritarian streaks of the left and right wings, liberalism still seems to be a popular centre-ground position.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2017-02-12 03:22 am (UTC)For me personally, I'm quite violence-averse on an emotional and gut level, so I don't tend to experience schadenfreude. If and when I feel any level of satisfaction in another's pain, it tends to be a fairly bitter and twisted feeling that I can't enjoy in any celebrity or happy way.
Those kind of emotional and gut reactions aren't the kind of thing that I think a person can be talked or reasoned into though; you feel it or you don't.
Hence, I'm more interested in ideological stances on violence and practical assessments of violence as a political means. My own judgements are that violence (of this type in this context) do poorly on both metrics and thus is best avoided.
no subject
Date: 2017-02-12 03:37 am (UTC)Now how about a compromise. Let's not punch Donald Trump, let's throw a cream pie in his face during a press conference, and toot an old car horn - HONKA HONKA - just after it hits.
no subject
Date: 2017-02-12 12:32 pm (UTC)If the aim is to discredit the ideas then it seems better to make people like Spencer and Milo look ridiculous rather than punch them. We need to engineer the situation so that these people are looking like fringe lunatics who deserve derision, not sympathy or support.
Bit late for that to work well with Trump, although a cream pie to the face is unlikely to make things much worse.
None of this really does a lot to address liberal objections regarding 'free market of ideas' and all that kind of thing still aren't met, but most people aren't liberals so I don't expect that to hold much sway.
no subject
Date: 2017-02-12 03:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-02-23 07:46 pm (UTC)The Berkeley protests were ineffective and were partly responsible for Milo's book becoming a best seller. However, media attention and public discussion of Milo's comments on paedophilia have cause that book to be cancelled. It's good to see some kind of success for the 'free market of ideas'.
Either way, Liberalism seems to be a far way from dead. Despite the authoritarian streaks of the left and right wings, liberalism still seems to be a popular centre-ground position.