[identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] politicartoons
“While having money doesn’t necessarily make anybody anything, the rich are way more likely to exhibit characteristics that we would stereotypically associate with, say, assholes.”

-- Paul Piff, social psychologist at Berkeley

Date: 2013-07-29 03:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] senshifan.livejournal.com
This is extremely insightful. I wonder why that is...

Date: 2013-07-29 03:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] usekh.livejournal.com
I wonder if it is a chicken and the egg type of argument. It takes a level of arseholery to succeed a lot of the time.

Date: 2013-07-29 06:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
But if we're just talking having money, an awful lot of that is inherited.

Date: 2013-07-29 10:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
Learned behavior, in those cases?

Date: 2013-07-29 10:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
I think it's part that ruthlessness gets you there, which makes you an arsehole, and if you're born there, you're born with an entitlement attitude, which makes you an arsehole.

Date: 2013-07-30 08:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
The Monopoly experience would suggest otherwise, since the players were chosen randomly to play either poor or rich.

Date: 2013-07-29 04:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Great post. Thanks.

Date: 2013-07-29 05:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goumindong.livejournal.com
Ahh, the stereotypical reverse causation problem.

Does having money make you an asshole?

Or are assholes just particularly good at making money?

Date: 2013-07-29 05:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goumindong.livejournal.com
And actually they did a good job of determining that it can be money that makes you an asshole all by itself.

Date: 2013-07-29 07:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
What they need to do is give me a whole lot of money and see if I become any more of an asshole than normal. I think this is an important test, for the good of humanity.

Date: 2013-07-29 08:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] usekh.livejournal.com
I think we need a properly rigorous examination of this, so I should participate as well.

I liked the Beastie Boys comment on this, it was something like "We were always assholes. We can just afford it now"

Date: 2013-07-29 10:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
International confirmation FTW! Gimme some o' that cash.

Date: 2013-07-29 12:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farchivist.livejournal.com
I was taught growing up by successful family members that success depends on assholism. Specifically, assholes tend to be ruthless and ruthlessness creates success. YMMV, of course.

Date: 2013-07-29 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
No, there's a large body of research out there that confirms everything the video states. Check out The Spirit Level (http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/) for more.

Of course, this is science stuff. Real science. Not economics, which is empirically challenged by definition.

Date: 2013-07-29 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
There's only so many ways to make money. At least some of them, but not all, involve having a certain disregard for the welfare of others.

Date: 2013-07-29 09:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
I wonder if the findings are tied in someway to culture: specifically I wonder if the same result would have been achieved in Germany, France, or the Scandawegian countries? Or even Australia, New Zealand, the UK and other parts of the Anglosphere.

More work needs to be done before we storm the Bastille and re-erect Madame la Guillotine.

Excellent post BTW.

Date: 2013-07-29 09:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wight1984.livejournal.com
The research does need to be repeated independently in different regions by different people in any case, so seems like it would be time well spent.

Date: 2013-07-29 10:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
Only 28% of investors with between 1 million and 5 million of assets Self described as rich....

Date: 2013-07-29 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trog.livejournal.com
Losers love to hate the rich.

Date: 2013-07-29 02:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trog.livejournal.com
God didn't make anything.

Date: 2013-07-29 02:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
i disagree; he made a MESS of things

Date: 2013-07-29 02:52 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-07-29 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
And the rich love to hate losers. There is such balance in nature.

Date: 2013-07-29 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
I don't hate the rich unless they're arseholes.

Date: 2013-07-29 04:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tigron-x.livejournal.com
This is what I got from the study: The richer you are, the more inclined you are to assert yourself.

So, if you're a douche-bag already, then money will make you more of who you already are.

Date: 2013-07-29 06:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tigron-x.livejournal.com
The problem with using the crosswalk example is that such a thing is more on par with a contractual term rather than a moral one.

Or, in other words: Violating the crosswalk rule is more of a violation of a standard of practice rather than a moral principle.

When you have enough money, you don't really need to adhere to customs set by other men. You're no longer dependent on others to survive -- if you follow what I mean. So, if you violate someone's personal sensibilities, oh well. It's not going to cost you a meal.

But, someone that doesn't have that financial freedom is more inclined (or willing) to be submissive because it can cost him/her that bare essential.

So, I don't think people are nice and then they become douche-bags because of the money. No, I think people realize they don't have to wear their mask(s) anymore. Just look at the internet when people can hide behind anonymity.

So, no, I don't find that money is the corrupting force here as the video tries to assert.

Date: 2013-07-29 07:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peristaltor.livejournal.com
. . . is more on par with a contractual term rather than a moral one.

I define "contractual" as something done by more than one party by consent. The cross walk rule is legal, in that it applies to all who drive. Given that the rule is designed to prevent death and dismemberment, that elevates the rule to "moral." So goodbye, "standard practice" argument. Toss that right the hell out.

When you have enough money, you don't really need to adhere to customs set by other men. You're no longer dependent on others to survive. . . .

As a corrective to this delusion, abandon a group of rich folks on a desert island with no food or water but a million in cash each. Everyone who cannot supply 100% of his or her needs is—by definition—dependent on others to survive.

So, no, I don't find that money is the corrupting force here as the video tries to assert.

Again, in case this was unclear in the video itself, the assertion comes not from the report on the research but on the research itself. And the research itself, from what little I've gleaned of it, is very, very robust and repeatable.

So you get the Donald Sutherland pointy finger of accusatory wrongness.

Date: 2013-07-29 07:40 pm (UTC)

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