Wealth Makes Us Worse?

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

“While having money doesn’t necessarily make anybody anything, the rich are way more likely to exhibit characteristics that we would stereotypically associate with, say, assholes.”

-- Paul Piff, social psychologist at Berkeley

Comments

[senshifan.livejournal.com]

This is extremely insightful. I wonder why that is...

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

Confirmation bias? But it's a confirmation of an obvious truth! ;)

[usekh.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it is a chicken and the egg type of argument. It takes a level of arseholery to succeed a lot of the time.

[fizzyland.livejournal.com]

But if we're just talking having money, an awful lot of that is inherited.

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

Learned behavior, in those cases?

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I think it's part that ruthlessness gets you there, which makes you an arsehole, and if you're born there, you're born with an entitlement attitude, which makes you an arsehole.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

The Monopoly experience would suggest otherwise, since the players were chosen randomly to play either poor or rich.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

Great post. Thanks.

[goumindong.livejournal.com]

Ahh, the stereotypical reverse causation problem.

Does having money make you an asshole?

Or are assholes just particularly good at making money?

[goumindong.livejournal.com]

And actually they did a good job of determining that it can be money that makes you an asshole all by itself.

[the-rukh.livejournal.com]

What they need to do is give me a whole lot of money and see if I become any more of an asshole than normal. I think this is an important test, for the good of humanity.

[usekh.livejournal.com]

I think we need a properly rigorous examination of this, so I should participate as well.

I liked the Beastie Boys comment on this, it was something like "We were always assholes. We can just afford it now"

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

International confirmation FTW! Gimme some o' that cash.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

It's the old lesson, no?, power corrupts.

[farchivist.livejournal.com]

I was taught growing up by successful family members that success depends on assholism. Specifically, assholes tend to be ruthless and ruthlessness creates success. YMMV, of course.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

No, there's a large body of research out there that confirms everything the video states. Check out The Spirit Level (http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/) for more.

Of course, this is science stuff. Real science. Not economics, which is empirically challenged by definition.

[brother-dour.livejournal.com]

There's only so many ways to make money. At least some of them, but not all, involve having a certain disregard for the welfare of others.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the findings are tied in someway to culture: specifically I wonder if the same result would have been achieved in Germany, France, or the Scandawegian countries? Or even Australia, New Zealand, the UK and other parts of the Anglosphere.

More work needs to be done before we storm the Bastille and re-erect Madame la Guillotine.

Excellent post BTW.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

Since we in America have sort of glorified greed, I wouldn't be surprised if this dynamic is stronger with us. Though, it seems like the rest of the world, certainly England, has been catching up on the thrill of greed.

[wight1984.livejournal.com]

The research does need to be repeated independently in different regions by different people in any case, so seems like it would be time well spent.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

Only 28% of investors with between 1 million and 5 million of assets Self described as rich....

[trog.livejournal.com]

Losers love to hate the rich.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

Ooh, so haughty are you! I didn't know God made losers. :p

[trog.livejournal.com]

God didn't make anything.

[enders-shadow.livejournal.com]

i disagree; he made a MESS of things

[telemann.livejournal.com]

DRONES!

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

And the rich love to hate losers. There is such balance in nature.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

I don't hate the rich unless they're arseholes.

[tigron-x.livejournal.com]

This is what I got from the study: The richer you are, the more inclined you are to assert yourself.

So, if you're a douche-bag already, then money will make you more of who you already are.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting read. I only know what this video says of the study, but I saw it as saying that the rich are more inclined to transgress than merely assert themselves. In the example of the cars and the crosswalk, which opens the video, the drivers are supposed to stop, so that they are not being merely more assertive, I believe. And I would say that money can turn a nice person into a douche-bag rather than merely turn a douche-bag into a greater one.

Though, I would presume we are speaking of tendencies and generalities. I certainly know poor people who are great enough douche-bags, and I don't doubt that there are rich people who are positively gracious and generous.

[tigron-x.livejournal.com]

The problem with using the crosswalk example is that such a thing is more on par with a contractual term rather than a moral one.

Or, in other words: Violating the crosswalk rule is more of a violation of a standard of practice rather than a moral principle.

When you have enough money, you don't really need to adhere to customs set by other men. You're no longer dependent on others to survive -- if you follow what I mean. So, if you violate someone's personal sensibilities, oh well. It's not going to cost you a meal.

But, someone that doesn't have that financial freedom is more inclined (or willing) to be submissive because it can cost him/her that bare essential.

So, I don't think people are nice and then they become douche-bags because of the money. No, I think people realize they don't have to wear their mask(s) anymore. Just look at the internet when people can hide behind anonymity.

So, no, I don't find that money is the corrupting force here as the video tries to assert.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

. . . is more on par with a contractual term rather than a moral one.

I define "contractual" as something done by more than one party by consent. The cross walk rule is legal, in that it applies to all who drive. Given that the rule is designed to prevent death and dismemberment, that elevates the rule to "moral." So goodbye, "standard practice" argument. Toss that right the hell out.

When you have enough money, you don't really need to adhere to customs set by other men. You're no longer dependent on others to survive. . . .

As a corrective to this delusion, abandon a group of rich folks on a desert island with no food or water but a million in cash each. Everyone who cannot supply 100% of his or her needs is—by definition—dependent on others to survive.

So, no, I don't find that money is the corrupting force here as the video tries to assert.

Again, in case this was unclear in the video itself, the assertion comes not from the report on the research but on the research itself. And the research itself, from what little I've gleaned of it, is very, very robust and repeatable.

So you get the Donald Sutherland pointy finger of accusatory wrongness.

[telemann.livejournal.com]

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