Hmm

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

Somebody just doesn't get white-male privilege? Or is there a stronger point: one should not be harsh to anyone, not even whites, men, nor even Christians or libertarians?

Comments

[macychick.livejournal.com]

My way of thinking is that it's okay to be politically incorrect at home with your family and friends; but out in public you have to be politically correct.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

There's being respectful around your intended (and unintended) audience, and then there's the bullying callout culture (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/18/online-bullying-ugly-sport-liberal-commenters) that tries to police that respectful appropriateness. This comic is more about the latter than the former.

[macychick.livejournal.com]

I hear you. People like that are the very reason why I was either kicked out or voluntarily left several different feminist communities online. In one such comm, I was actually called racist for saying that it was okay to be politically incorrect at home with your family and friends.

[senshifan.livejournal.com]

I think even just around family and friends there's a line that should never be crossed.

For instance, if a white person was to say a racist joke around other white people and they all laughed, it would be seen as okay. But if that joke made one of them uncomfortable, then a fight could ensue.

Now, as a pagan black female, I've had some really good laughs at racist, sexist, and religious jokes. But that still doesn't make them okay; especially when the people around you could be unprepared for it.

[macychick.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, that's true, too. I suppose I should have added "as long as you are 100% sure that everyone present is comfortable with your un-PC jokes." For instance, I have no tolerance for the R-word, the N-word, the C-word, or any jokes about rape, the Holocaust, eugenics, or female genital mutilation; even if it's "just kidding" and "just at home with family and friends."
However, my family and friends and I often will say and do things in the privacy of home that could be percieved as politically incorrect if they were done in public- for instance, jokingly faking a foreign accent. That doesn't make us racist.

[senshifan.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, and that works when a person has no prejudice. However, there are racist jokes that even I find funny and laugh at before out that the person said really meant what said said.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

"R-word?" Unfamiliar.

[wight1984.livejournal.com]

Telling racist jokes also risks reinforcing other people's prejudices, so that they may feel more comfortable being racist because they can see their peers seeming to be racist.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

it's okay to be politically incorrect at home with your family and friends

Shouldn't we have greater leeway than that, such as comedy night clubs, for instance? Do we really want our movies and books to be scrubbed for only the most sensitive expressions? Surely, some of the Internet should be free-speech fire zones. Though, I appreciate that, on the Internet, we have enough forums that go way over any generally accepted lines - the true hate stuff. But, in priniciple.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Look at the reaction to Seth Macfarlane at the Oscars. The answer is yes, many do want a scrubbed culture.

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

The Oscars, though, are such a universal event that I can see that being made airtight, as much as I might start watching the Oscars again if it could be more raucous. I tend to avoid network TV altogether, because it is so antiseptic.

[macychick.livejournal.com]

Eh, the Oscars is a very different venue than a late night comedy show. I'd put the Oscars in the category of "places where you have to be politically correct" and late night comedy shows in "places where it's okay to be politically incorrect."

[spamwarrior.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine what they thought they were getting when they asked him to perform, then.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Someone had a great analysis of why. It's the same reason they hired Letterman years ago, then brought Crystal back.

The Oscars are stodgy, so every now and again they bring in "edgy" to get "the kids" to tune in. Sadly, the crowd at the Oscars is pretty thin-skinned. They have to be there, and do not appreciate being the butt of edgy jokes in such a public forum.

[op-tech-glitch.livejournal.com]

Eddie Murphy was once asked about something similar to this by Barbara Walters, and told her, "You know when it's in bad taste? When it's not funny."

As I have for the past 15 or so years found the ongoing oeuvre of Seth MacFarlane to be approximately as "funny" and entertaining as watching somebody's disabled grandmother get kicked down a flight of stairs, I'd say Eddie couldn't have summed it up any better than he did.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

as "funny" and entertaining as watching somebody's disabled grandmother get kicked down a flight of stairs

I imagine Seth McFarlane would find that freakin' hilarious.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

He also got that reaction because most of it wasn't funny.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I thought it was funny, but I also enjoy Family Guy.

[macychick.livejournal.com]

Shouldn't we have greater leeway than that, such as comedy night clubs, for instance?

Yeah, you're right about that.

[dexeron.livejournal.com]

The thing is, no one's really saying comedians don't have the right to make jokes; but we all have the right to judge them as horrible human beings based on what they say. Applying a label of "comedy" or "satire" doesn't make something terrible suddenly and magically "ok".

Thing is, it's not about sanitizing or censoring or scrubbing everything. It's about pointing out "Hey, making a pretty obviously racist generalization ISN'T funny, and your being a comedian doesn't excuse you from that." That doesn't mean race (or other sensitive subjects) can't be the subject of comedy. But a good guide is to go by that old saying "punch up, not down." Take shots at the status quo, at established power structures. Don't take shots at the marginalized. So, for example, yea, make fun of society, its gender roles, even the way we deal with sexual assault. Don't, like Daniel Tosh, make jokes about rape and respond to someone getting offended by saying that the offendee deserves to be raped. That's not comedy, it's not funny, and while it may well be his right to "free speech", it's MY right to free speech to call him a piece of shit.

One thing that seems to always be forgotten is that criticizing someone's speech is ITSELF free speech. The folks who so loudly complain when others criticize something hateful they said seem to forget that complaining isn't the same thing as censoring. And while I agree with you about the "principle" you're espousing, far too often I see this demand for free speech used by folks who are angry that they just can't say the hateful things they used to without someone calling them out on it. I'm not accusing YOU of this, but for a lot of folks, there's a little bit of dishonesty at play here: it's not really an issue of "sanitizing" culture; it's that their old privilege of getting to say every lizard-brained urge that popped into their head without regard to who it affected has been taken away, so now they feel "oppressed", as if taking a moment to have a bit of consideration for other folks before opening one's mouth is just so terribly inconvenient. I don't like censorship, but I don't buy these folks' objections. They're free to say whatever the hell they want: the rest of us are free to dismiss them as soon as they demonstrate exactly how little, beyond hate, they have to offer.

[macychick.livejournal.com]

One thing that seems to always be forgotten is that criticizing someone's speech is ITSELF free speech. The folks who so loudly complain when others criticize something hateful they said seem to forget that complaining isn't the same thing as censoring.
EXACTLY.

[wight1984.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Freedom of speech does not imply freedom from criticism.

[op-tech-glitch.livejournal.com]

Michael Richards goddamn well found that out the hard way.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

We have a long tradition in Australia of self deprecating humour. One guy made a living out of "wog" (wop to you Americans) jokes. He could get away with them because his name is Giannopolous. There's been a show with a Greek guy and a Viet Namese guy called "the truth about gooks and wogs", perfectly fine, because they are ripping on their own culture, which is funny for outsiders because it's different (which is where a lot of racist humour draws its power from) but also funny for insiders because they get the joke.

There was also a comedian around in the 90s called Steady Eddie who had Cerebral Palsy. His act was essentially nothing but disabled jokes.

[wight1984.livejournal.com]

"Shouldn't we have greater leeway than that, such as comedy night clubs, for instance?"

The other important distinction is between 'People shouldn't tell racist jokes' and 'people shouldn't be allowed to tell racist jokes'.

There's a considerable gap between the two; I'll condemn racist humour, but that doesn't mean I want to see it criminalised.