I noticed that the posts about Benedict stepping down on the political communities I belong to outnumber those on the same topic from the Christianity communities I belong to by about 10:1. I'm beginning to think the Catholics really are in shock.
Something that happened last 600 years ago most likely does NOT appear more normal to Catholics. Every news report from the Catholic leadership indicates shock.
Obviously we're not watching or listening to the same news reports. Maybe some medias were more shocked than were people in the street. I even heard a journalist finish his report about how shocking(if not horrible) this decision was despite his long interview of a Catholic bishop and a historian of religions assuring him that it was an usual decision in the history of the Catholic Church but it was also a very human and honest decision, very much like his author the Pope Benedict and maybe for the better of the Catholic Church. The journalist wanted it shocking and he made it that way in his report.
Sorry, I made a typo-error, it is "an unusual decision in the history" I meant.
"Human", "honest" and "utterly surprising and unsuspected" are by no means exclusive of each other. With that, I agree but, nevertheless, Benedict XVI already talked about his possible resignation in 2010.
Well, it seems to me that Catholics are accepting and understanding his decision quite well. And you can't except them to be stuck in a conventional-and for the matter a really old rigid tradition- way of conducting the affairs of the Church.
And I wouldn't say that the opposit of spirituality is moral depravity. I just find funny from brother dour's comment that people who aren't catholic seem to be more questioned or thrilled by the Pope's resignation than the Catholics or the Christians themselves.
I don't see how it could be rude. I find that not always the materialist and consumerist world we live in invites us to take care of our real needs, to take time to live truly. To be interested in such an event can be indeed an opportunity and/or a sign to express a more spiritual/philosophical side of ourselves.
You really can't see how it could be rude to suggest that "others" (from context, non-Catholics) lack spirituality, merely because they have been discussing the first pope to resign in six centuries??
You cannot see how it may be presumptive and out of line to assert that someone lacks spirituality and so much so, that they are in "dire need" of it? And you assert this merely because they noticed the pope resigning is a unique event and comment on it?
Let me revisit it.
"Or that it appears to be more normal and acceptable to the Catholics and that, maybe, the others are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality."
You assert that "others", non-Catholics, are in "dire need" of spirtuality. That strongly suggests that they fatally lack spirituality. This sideways glancing at the morals of non-Catholics isn't so nice.
Well, I'm seeing a lot of Catholics taking it quite positively. As for the non-catholics who are interested in this event I suppose it appeals on many levels, political, religious, spiritual... I AM NOT IMPLYING that non-Catholics are lacking spirituality just that we live in a world that oddly lacks it(And I am not talking here of going to the church or any religious building every week!). Otherwise, why people not impacted by the Pope's resignation would discuss it at length and would be shocked by it as brother dour's comment suggests it, even more so than the Catholics themselves?
"the others are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality"
By "the others", you meant the world? I think not, but whatever, this is childish now.
why people not impacted by the Pope's resignation would discuss it at length and would be shocked by it as brother dour's comment suggests it, even more so than the Catholics themselves?
You could ask them instead of asserting that they lack spirtuality.
Ah, truly I'm finished for tonight! Re-read brother dour's comment: who are the people who seem to talk and to be shocked the more?
And I live in an erea where every two kilometers there is evidence that people could have been spiritual human beings 5000 years before christ so quit the idea that I suggested that only the Catholics are spiritual people.
I don't understand your ayatollesque attitude about a derisive SUGGESTION. Obviously, I should have said that Catholics are dumb and people who are not catholic are the salt of the earth!
Excuse me for showing some humour and trying to enlarge the debate! You deliberately misinterpreted my words and insulted me. Despite my explanations you are more interested in a demonstration of how stupid and prejudiced a person I am in your opinion rather than discussing the core of the subject. Such a display of short-sighted righteousness is terrible I must say, Anyway, I suspect I shouldn't have entered a discussion without mastering fully what remains for me a foreign language and a foreign culture. But, still, I find this rather disappointing.
I AM NOT IMPLYING that non-Catholics are lacking spirituality
Bull. This Catholic saw you imply just that in your comment, so you have lied. Or that it appears to be more normal and acceptable to the Catholics and that, maybe, the others are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality. has the implication that non-Catholics are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality. And you don't have the authority or ability within the Church to say that, as that judgment is given specifically to the missions and certain officers of the hierarchy. I recommend hieing straight to the Confessional to receive your penance.
I didn't know that to be in need of spirituality in a world that is so materialistic in some of its aspects was the same as lacking spirituality ! In my book it is almost the opposit. But, never mind.... I let you to your religious marinade.
Still, its fairly unusual for the pope to step down. Its a spectacle for me, in that it doesn't have much effect in my life. It will be curious to see the direction things take from here.
Obviously I can't know what's in the mind of every Catholic, though I did grow up Catholic and went to a Catholic college and am still surrounded by Catholics including my family and most of my friends, but I don't think they're "accepting and understanding" as much as they just don't care. It's not that big a deal.
As I said elsewhere in this thread, this doesn't really change anything. Benedict will be the most important decider of who replaces him, as are most Popes who quit/die. The Church will still be opposed to birth-control in March, the Pope will still travel to Africa and tell them that condoms cause AIDS, the Vatican will still whine about abortion and gay rights. This isn't like a Presidential election, it's more like a change of power in North Korea, the ideological slant of the Vatican isn't going to change one bit.
In my opinion, there are two types of Catholics and their reactions to this are going to be different. There are the true believers, including members of my family, who truly care what the Pope says and does but who no doubt know that the Vatican will still continue to share their batshit insane ideological leanings regardless of who sits in the throne.
Then there are the Catholics who still claim to be Catholic but who nonetheless still use birth-control and get abortions for unwanted pregnancies and love their gay friends and vote Democratic. Again, they know that the Catholic Church is still going to disagree with those things and that nothing will change so I doubt they really care who replaces Ratzinger.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 09:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 10:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 12:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 02:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 03:18 pm (UTC)Because every reporter on the Papacy I've heard has explained that this has taken the entire College of Cardinals completely by surprise.
That has absolutely *nothing* to do with a specific bishop's characterization of it as "human and honest".
"Human", "honest" and "utterly surprising and unsuspected" are by no means exclusive of each other.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 08:01 pm (UTC)"Human", "honest" and "utterly surprising and unsuspected" are by no means exclusive of each other. With that, I agree but, nevertheless, Benedict XVI already talked about his possible resignation in 2010.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 12:56 pm (UTC)How normal is something that hasn't happened in six centuries.
the others are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality
Its dire, but you cant see it? Merely talking about the happenings in Rome are an indication of moral depravity?
No.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 01:50 pm (UTC)And I wouldn't say that the opposit of spirituality is moral depravity. I just find funny from brother dour's comment that people who aren't catholic seem to be more questioned or thrilled by the Pope's resignation than the Catholics or the Christians themselves.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 02:00 pm (UTC)Okay. Still, doesn't make it "normal", its still unique.
you can't except them to be stuck in a conventional-and for the matter a really old rigid tradition- way of conducting the affairs of the Church.
. I just find funny
"others are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality"'
You suggested people are "in dire need" of spirituality" and that is rude and arrogant.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 02:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 03:43 pm (UTC)You cannot see how it may be presumptive and out of line to assert that someone lacks spirituality and so much so, that they are in "dire need" of it? And you assert this merely because they noticed the pope resigning is a unique event and comment on it?
Let me revisit it.
"Or that it appears to be more normal and acceptable to the Catholics and that, maybe, the others are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality."
You assert that "others", non-Catholics, are in "dire need" of spirtuality. That strongly suggests that they fatally lack spirituality. This sideways glancing at the morals of non-Catholics isn't so nice.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 07:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 08:32 pm (UTC)By "the others", you meant the world? I think not, but whatever, this is childish now.
why people not impacted by the Pope's resignation would discuss it at length and would be shocked by it as brother dour's comment suggests it, even more so than the Catholics themselves?
You could ask them instead of asserting that they lack spirtuality.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 10:00 pm (UTC)Re-read brother dour's comment: who are the people who seem to talk and to be shocked the more?
And I live in an erea where every two kilometers there is evidence that people could have been spiritual human beings 5000 years before christ so quit the idea that I suggested that only the Catholics are spiritual people.
I don't understand your ayatollesque attitude about a derisive SUGGESTION. Obviously, I should have said that Catholics are dumb and people who are not catholic are the salt of the earth!
no subject
Date: 2013-02-13 01:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-13 09:48 pm (UTC)You deliberately misinterpreted my words and insulted me. Despite my explanations you are more interested in a demonstration of how stupid and prejudiced a person I am in your opinion rather than discussing the core of the subject. Such a display of short-sighted righteousness is terrible I must say,
Anyway, I suspect I shouldn't have entered a discussion without mastering fully what remains for me a foreign language and a foreign culture. But, still, I find this rather disappointing.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-13 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-13 10:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-13 10:49 pm (UTC)Are you in dire need of spirituality?Boss man say we out of line. Let's drop it. Sorry I pissed you off.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-13 05:05 pm (UTC)Bull. This Catholic saw you imply just that in your comment, so you have lied. Or that it appears to be more normal and acceptable to the Catholics and that, maybe, the others are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality. has the implication that non-Catholics are in a dire and hidden need of spirituality. And you don't have the authority or ability within the Church to say that, as that judgment is given specifically to the missions and certain officers of the hierarchy. I recommend hieing straight to the Confessional to receive your penance.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-13 09:52 pm (UTC)I didn't know that to be in need of spirituality in a world that is so materialistic in some of its aspects was the same as lacking spirituality ! In my book it is almost the opposit. But, never mind.... I let you to your religious marinade.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-13 10:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 02:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 04:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 02:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 04:04 pm (UTC)As I said elsewhere in this thread, this doesn't really change anything. Benedict will be the most important decider of who replaces him, as are most Popes who quit/die. The Church will still be opposed to birth-control in March, the Pope will still travel to Africa and tell them that condoms cause AIDS, the Vatican will still whine about abortion and gay rights. This isn't like a Presidential election, it's more like a change of power in North Korea, the ideological slant of the Vatican isn't going to change one bit.
In my opinion, there are two types of Catholics and their reactions to this are going to be different. There are the true believers, including members of my family, who truly care what the Pope says and does but who no doubt know that the Vatican will still continue to share their batshit insane ideological leanings regardless of who sits in the throne.
Then there are the Catholics who still claim to be Catholic but who nonetheless still use birth-control and get abortions for unwanted pregnancies and love their gay friends and vote Democratic. Again, they know that the Catholic Church is still going to disagree with those things and that nothing will change so I doubt they really care who replaces Ratzinger.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-12 04:34 pm (UTC)Wat.