(no subject)

[whitetomger.livejournal.com]

Comments

[hardblue.livejournal.com]

This has to be the most accurate and fully descriptive cartoon yet.

[artkouros.livejournal.com]

That's a great elephant.

[mikepictor.livejournal.com]

Nicely present...don't think the elephant needs to say "Republicans" though...I would have guessed.

[mikepictor.livejournal.com]

er..nicely presented

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Misguided at best. The cartoonist apparently missed the two debt ceiling bills Republicans already passed and the compromises that went with them. Meanwhile, Obama's offered, well...not much of anything, and, as far as I can tell, still wants tax increases.

[taiki.livejournal.com]

pardon my french

BULL.SHIT.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Oh really? Up until last night, every Democraat plan floated had tax increases. The President hasn't even gotten around to offering a plan of his own, and has shown no interest in compromise.

Whatcha got?

[taiki.livejournal.com]

the spending cuts?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Obama ran on a net spending cut. Are we now going to call him someone who compromises with the Republicans because he's creeping closer to fulfilling a campaign promise?

[telemann.livejournal.com]

As Bill Maher says, the Democrats have no balls and The Republican­s have no brains.

[pacotelic.livejournal.com]

or hearts.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

Pure theater. Those bills carried too much baggage to be passed.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Perhaps. Yet the Democratic plans were...?

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

Gang of Six (well, bipartisan) and the Reid Plan. There could have been something between Obama and Boehner, but the Tea Party made sure that didn't happen. They forced the Republicans to walk away from talks three times because they were unwilling to compromise. Ultimately, anything the Democrats put forward would be shot down in the House and would have been a symbolic wastes of time.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

So Reid had one plan, the House Republicans up to 3 depending on how you judge the Ryan plan, and Obama...?

That's the part that's killing me about this whole debate. The Republicans have done more work and more compromising than anyone else in this debate, and they're the ones we're supposed to blame?

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

They're not compromising with the Democrats, so it doesn't matter how many plans they come up with. Passing a plan that they know will be defeated does nothing but spawn silly talking point like this one.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

They're not? So why are they now agreeing to a debt ceiling increase? Why are they now agreeing to smaller cuts?

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

They're waiting until the last minute, as I said in another comment earlier. The point was that they aren't giving the Democrats what they want, and Democrats control the Senate and presidency.

The Tea Party was unwilling to raise the debt ceiling at all unless they got exactly what they wanted with nothing else given in return. I'm sure many of them are still unwilling to raise it, but they're outnumbered by the more reasonable members of the House Republicans and the House Democrats.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

They're waiting until the last minute, as I said in another comment earlier. The point was that they aren't giving the Democrats what they want, and Democrats control the Senate and presidency.

I disagree. They've been acting for months to solve this. And they have, for the last few weeks, been giving the Democrats what they want - a debt limit increase and smaller cuts.

The Tea Party was unwilling to raise the debt ceiling at all unless they got exactly what they wanted with nothing else given in return.

I disagree. They didn't even want to raise the debt ceiling. As it stands, the only thing that has remained off the table have been tax increases.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

They've been acting for months to jockey to a position that benefited their side more. It was always going to go down to the wire. That's how this works.

The Democrats and most of the establishment Republicans do not consider the debt ceiling increase to be "on the table" as part of a compromise. They realize it needs to be done because the consequences are worse than not. So I reject the notion that this was actually a compromise position, even if the reckless Tea Party doesn't.

Tax increases being off the table shows they are more ideologically driven than realistic about reducing the deficit. All this jockeying over the last few months, among other things, has had the benefit of showing the true colors of everyone involved.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

They've been acting for months to jockey to a position that benefited their side more. It was always going to go down to the wire. That's how this works.

Absolutely - they do what they're elected to do in many senses. But they're still acting.

The Democrats and most of the establishment Republicans do not consider the debt ceiling increase to be "on the table" as part of a compromise. They realize it needs to be done because the consequences are worse than not. So I reject the notion that this was actually a compromise position, even if the reckless Tea Party doesn't.

Call the Tea Party reckless if you'd like, but the option for them was to cut spending where necessary to avoid even having to hit the limit - a better option than this, IMO.

Tax increases being off the table shows they are more ideologically driven than realistic about reducing the deficit. All this jockeying over the last few months, among other things, has had the benefit of showing the true colors of everyone involved.

That tax increases were on the table is the true problem. The Tea Party and the Republicans both showed that this can be done without tax increases.

[soliloquy76.livejournal.com]

That tax increases were on the table is the true problem. The Tea Party and the Republicans both showed that this can be done without tax increases.

Of course it could. But the sacrifices being made are by the middle class and the poor in this new deal. The wealthiest people sacrifice nothing. That's the argument I've heard from the other side.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

But the sacrifices being made are by the middle class and the poor in this new deal. The wealthiest people sacrifice nothing

I'm not sure that's really the case. But, then again, if the middle class and poor were given too much to start...

That's the argument I've heard from the other side.

That might be part of the problem.

Re: I'm not sure that's really the case. But, then again, if the middle class and poor were given to

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I understand why many in society disagree with me - it's because they've come to believe this idea that the wealthy, who pay a significantly higher amount of taxes, somehow also benefit more at the same time.

It's not a misunderstanding of economics, nor is this a moral issue. It simply is.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

I'm not seeing how it's even an issue worth paying attention to. I don't know what the libertarian perspective is on it.

[caerfrli.livejournal.com]

Here's a plan. Raise the debt ceiling so we can pay the bills we've already run up. Set up a proper stimulus plan (not like the wimpy waste of time we had in '09) so there'll be enough people working to pay taxes and reduce unemployment and food stamp costs. Save Social security by ending the cap. Get rid of Medicare by having a proper, government run Single Payer health plan. End the wars. Then Congress can sit down and work out a budget that will bring down the deficit.

[anfalicious.livejournal.com]

That elephant sure has a head full of steam...