Political Cartoons

Thank-you, too.

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Thank-you.

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I thought this was a Woody Allen plot? Hilarious!

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pragmatic-chimp.livejournal.com

Yes, and everyone involved should be in prison.

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adrunkencadence.livejournal.com

There was an in depth investigative report by a European news agency- I don't remember which one but I know it wasn't the BBC. It's on one of my unplugged hard drives so I'll look for the title if you're interested in seeing it. It follows Khaled into the hearings which were held to figure out what happened and presents a lot of the evidence linking his abduction to the US.

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pragmatic-chimp.livejournal.com

Sure, I'd be very interested in that, thank you.

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adrunkencadence.livejournal.com

Sorry, apparently I don't have it anymore. :(

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Agreed. Though targeting brown people because of their names or circumstantial evidence is hardly as bad as launching missiles against a civilian population based on their possible proximity of a target individual (the American Way). Or blowing up civilians to get enemy states to spend money they don't have and erode public will (The standard terrorist way)

I'm sure AlQaeda would love a predator drone or two.

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weswilson

The hyperbole that this is terrorism is ridiculous. It's hard to terrorize when you don't publicize.

That being said, this series of actions is indicative of why I'm opposed to denying enemy combatants habeus corpus.

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american-geist.livejournal.com

My thoughts exactly on both points. You might be able to pull a terrorist analogy out of the killing of civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan, but this is just awful, brutal, policy.

That being said, this is by far the best comic I've seen from you.

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The US didn't need to publicize it - this stuff publicizes itself.

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I dunno. State actors blowing up or detaining civilians in sloppy pursuit of terrorists or guerillas is plenty public. I think the word for what happens in Afghanistan is "Opression", but it doesn't have the same perjorative punch as "Terrorism"

Al-Qaeda's goals and America's goals are kinda symmetric, both want the other to stop doing something, and think that negotiation is out of the question. So they resort to Total War and insurgency. Hopefully there will be a reward for us being smarter. Because we do have a lot of room to be smarter, while Al-Qaeda is in a lucrative ideological corner.

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weswilson

So, we identify horrible things with the strongest word we can find, whether or not it fits? I'll leave that to the pundits, and just try to use words that fit.

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I'm off to annihilate the bathroom.

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I'm off to murder & cannibalize a half-pound of peameal bacon (tastes like baby, donchano).

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I don't know, not calling it terrorism doesn't make it look any better

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weswilson

So we must call all horrible things terrorism, now?

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no, not saying that either

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if there's anything to call it, it's whatever word fits the idea that we must call all horrible things terrorism. Something between poor sense of judgement and general douchiness.

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least hyperbole-tastic word I can think of is "bad form"

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laliatk.livejournal.com

BAD FORM?!

I just... I... what.

What part of "tortured, sodomized and injected with drugs" can be put on the same level as making an impolite joke in polite company?

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yeah, I think I left hyperbole and went into euphemism territory. Might as well bring up "collateral damage" while were at it.

Torture is a better word for it. It's a shame it doesn't hold as much punch to it as terrorism though. Torture < terrorism?, like, wtf?

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Horrible? No. Scary, like the intentionally frightening actions of torture & rape? I'd say 'terror' applies. Someone who terrorizes is a terrorist.

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weswilson

By that standard, any criminal is a terrorist. Words have meaning. Terrorism implies two main things:
1) A deliberate destructive action directed at civilians
2) An attempt to send a message to other civilians that they are unsafe.

This situation is neither of those.

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Any criminal? Who speaks hyperbole now?

While we're here, allow me to opine that we're long past a timely description of rape as domestic terror, which fits both of your criteria.

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Khaled was far from an enemy combatant. This is the terror instilled in people that one government can scour the world & pick ANYONE off any street on the planet & label him or her a possible threat. This is terrorism by a world power.

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Sure. Just like any Sufi educational center in America is getting built at ground zero.

This discussion is dully liberal. Where's the gang over at conservatism to whup on?

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weswilson

And I fought tooth and nail against people using overt hyperbole in that situation as well.

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Interestingly, according to the documentary Camp FEMA (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566925/), there is a Dept of Homeland Security document that classifies pro-lifers as domestic terrorists. It's mentioned at about 18 minutes in.

If your government can stretch the definition, why can't I?

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anfalicious.livejournal.com

Because you're underselling just how much worse it is when the most powerful government in the world, which preaches values like liberty, freedom and justice, does something horrific compared with the actions of a few random poor and/or crazy people.

Repeat after me, "war crimes" not "acts of terror".

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Except what happened to Khaled wasn't a war crime. The USA isn't at war with Germany.

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weswilson

That's because people who bomb abortion clinics ARE terrorists. They are using violence to send a message to other doctors that their lives are in danger.

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You do know that not all Muslims are terrorists, right?

How are all pro-lifers clinic bombers? Might as well add all vegans, as they are idiologically in line with PETA & their support of the ALF.

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weswilson

And I'm willing to make a sizable cash wager that the Department of Homeland Security does not consider all pro-lifers to be terrorists. My money is that they were focusing on the people planning action.

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As with the gentleman featured in my comic, as with all the Japanese interned during WWII, citizen & otherwise, we cannot trust this government to make that distinction, because it has so poorly done so in the past. History is our teacher.

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anfalicious.livejournal.com

Yeah, they're incorrectly conflating "terrorist" with "war criminal". That's a bit unfair on the terrorists.

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not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com

this is news that needs to be spread but I find it bothersome that the biggest argument against the way we treat our prisoners, suspects and detainees is that we sometimes "detain" the wrong person. How about the argument that what we are doing is wrong to do to ANYBODY?

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I like how you put 'detain' in quotes.

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It pains me that people out there actually justify this sort of thing. "Oh he's an enemy combatant" no? "well he's just a Muslim" because you give up your human rights by becoming a Muslim, or something. And of course he's Muslim because all brown people with Middle Eastern names are, doncha know. or how about a classic "Why do you hate America?" and to that I say I don't hate America, I hate what it's become.

Edited Date: 2011-01-17 05:37 pm (UTC)

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My Brither in law tried to bait me and a few other relatives with a showing of the Dennis Miller show. The false equivalency of "Guantanamo Inmate=Evil Terrorist" was the most galling, but I knew that rising to the bait would be pointless.

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"Brither" - ha. apt

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