Poignant or pointless?

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

Comments

[borgseawolf.livejournal.com]

Pointless. Why is it ALWAYS the Israeli who are compared to Nazis, and not any of other dozens of nations that wage war on their neighbours?

[edgar-suit.livejournal.com]

...nothing in that cartoon references Nazis. You made that connection.

[borgseawolf.livejournal.com]

Looking through barbed wire fence is an iconic symbol of a concentration camp. If that wasn't the cartoonist's intention, then he just fails at using symbols.

[zombiesmustdie.livejournal.com]

I think your view of what a barded wire fence can symbolize is awfully narrow.

[borgseawolf.livejournal.com]

Cartoons tend to use simple, narrow symbols like that. It's not dadaist poetry. Barbed wire = concentration camp. What else can it symbolize in this context?

[milkquasy.livejournal.com]

I didn't get the barbed wire = concentration camp thing but I did get Nazi's. Mainly because of the giant star of david.

[zombiesmustdie.livejournal.com]

The barded wire could easily a symbol for war or conflict in general which is a much more reasonable connection than the Jews=Nazis one you've made. Its not like the nazis were the first or the only ones to use barbed wire.

Personally the image reminds me more of World War 1 than anything else.

Considering that the cartoon works just as well if barbed wire = conflict. and so far you're the only one who made the concentration camp connection. You're wrong.

Cartoons 101

[borgseawolf.livejournal.com]

Symbols don't really work like that... barbed wire fence is a symbol of, in general, prison, concentration camp, lack of freedom. It can in no way be interpreted as symbol of conflict or war.

World War I barbed wire is rolled and entangled, not in straight lines like on the picture: http://www3.eou.edu/hist06/images/pg318_000.jpg

These are simple things, really. If people stop getting simple symbols, we might as well replace cartoons with essays.

Re: Cartoons 101

[zombiesmustdie.livejournal.com]

Symbols aren't hieroglyphics in which they can mean one thing and one thing alone. I would say that a barbed wire fence is good symbol for prison or lack of freedom.

However to say that a barb wire fence has never and will never be an acceptable symbol for war is just ignorant.

I can't see the barbed wire fence in the above cartoon as connected specifically to nazi concentration camps because there is nothing else beyond the fence itself to tie it concentration camps.

Does a barb wire fire always mean a nazi concentration camps regardless of all other context or is that just you going Kevin Bacon on the cartoon?

Re: Cartoons 101

[pragmatic-chimp.livejournal.com]

I agree. I also read it as symbolizing a loss of freedom.

Re: Cartoons 101

[dwer.livejournal.com]

Barbed wire also evokes images of the american west and cows.

Free the Cows!

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Its quite obvious, especially to people who lived through the last 60 years, this is a drawing a parallel between the ghettos in the west bank and concentration camps.

[saint-monkey.livejournal.com]

From where I'm from, it means the cows can't get out.

[mindrtist.livejournal.com]

seriously.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

I live in Nevada.
Barbed wire is everywhere.
I see it and I think 'ranching' or otherwise related establishing a property line.
Certainly, your explanation is valid, but it is far from the only meaning for that imagery.

[borgseawolf.livejournal.com]

"Gaza cattle ranch"

Sure, that makes more sense than "Gaza concentration camp"...

Aah the cherry pick.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

"OR OTHERWISE RELATED TO ESTABLISHING A PROPERTY LINE. " is the part of that reply you're looking for, Son of Godwin.

[hazardous-filth.livejournal.com]

Looking through a fence saying "Arbeit macht frei" sure that's a Nazi reference, but a barbed wire fence? Get real.

A barbed wire fence brings up a range of ideas and can symbol all sorts focussed around conflict and pain, like storming beaches, trench warfare, being imprisoned and myriad of others. Amnesty international even has barbed wire in their icon, and they're about any human rights issues, war zones and conflicts etc.

Also I think you fail at recognising flags rather than cartoonist failing at using symbols, the barbed wire forms the israeli flag.

[milkquasy.livejournal.com]

Because the modern conflicts in the middle East began at the end of World War II with direct relationship to the survivors of the Holocaust.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Why is it ALWAYS the Israeli who are compared to Nazis

Because without the Nazis, there would be no Israel.

War is where we become our enemy.

[vivianc1968.livejournal.com]

I'll vote for pointless. Barbed wire can't stop rockets.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

You haven't seen some of the anti-RPG vehicles the DoD has been working on, then.

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

Yes. An interesting idea. They use chain link fence panels or steel cages or similar mounted at a stand off distance on the sides of vehicles to trigger the grenade early, blunting its effectiveness against armor or causing it to dud by shorting the trigger. Genius.

http://www.defense-update.com/products/s/slat-stryker.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_armour#Cage_Armor

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/baes-lrod-cage-armor-03473/

http://www.dodsbir.net/selections/abs042/navyabs042.htm
Search for RPG.

[johnroche.livejournal.com]

So it's like a cow-catcher for explosive weapons?

[squidb0i.livejournal.com]

Kinda, yeah.

[jblaque.livejournal.com]

I guess it depends on which side of the fence (no pun intended) you're on. If I were pro-Hamas, I'd say it's brilliant. As a supporter of Israel's right to retaliate against terrorist attacks, I'm going with pointless.

[weswilson]

I dunno... Barbed wire is fairly pointy.... so we can't call it pointless.

[xforge.livejournal.com]

The point is, there is no point. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Point!)

[johnroche.livejournal.com]

Neo: So we need machines, and machines need us. Is that your point?
Councillor Harmann: No, no point. Old men like me don't bother in making points. There is no point.
Neo: Is that why there are no young men on the council?
Councillor Harmann: Good point.