(no subject)

[weswilson]

Comments

[maxtor2006.livejournal.com]

Неплохо

[saint-monkey.livejournal.com]

Uh Oh. Change the "HAMAS" on the shirt to read "Cartoons about the Arab-Israeli Conflict."

[luper.livejournal.com]

i second this

[ltmurdoch.livejournal.com]

As I just wrote in the previous post, it's a self-inflicted wound in my opinion.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

snap

[zombiesmustdie.livejournal.com]

Israel: I'm sick of these fucking rocket attacks, Lets bomb the shit out of Palestine

Palestine: Man having the shit bombed out of us sucked. Lets get some rockets together and fuck some shit up.

Israel: I'm sick of these fucking rocket attacks, Lets bomb the shit out of Palestine

Palestine: Man having the shit bombed out of us sucked. Lets get some rockets together and fuck some shit up.

Israel: I'm sick of these fucking rocket attacks, Lets bomb the shit out of Palestine

Palestine: Man having the shit bombed out of us sucked. Lets get some rockets together and fuck some shit up.

and so on...

[bonegardens.livejournal.com]

iawtc so motherfucking hard

In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion

[saint-monkey.livejournal.com]

[i.livejournal.com]

ordinary people in both countries

WTF?

[pacotelic.livejournal.com]

THIS

[jblaque.livejournal.com]

Righteous.

[xforge.livejournal.com]

It'd be nice if the backfire just hit the ones launching the missiles. Regrettably they usually cleanly miss the terrorists and hit the grandmothers and toddlers.

[tubaboy81.livejournal.com]

Eh, use a large enough bomb and someone in the blast radius is bound to be guilty.

[savagemind.livejournal.com]

Let's kill 'em all now, since they're bound to be guilty of something eventually.

[sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com]

"After the Airstrikes, bombardments, Whirlwinds, fusion, and star-fire had cleansed the world of our enemies, we built a monastery in the center of the largest crater. We named it 'Tranquility', for all was quiet now."

-From "Necropolis" by Dan Abnet

[savagemind.livejournal.com]

For example:



Let's not be naive. No matter which side you support, or if you're like me and you despise all the parties involved, it isn't just rat-faced freedom-hating jihadis that are dying.

[red-pill.livejournal.com]

i saw that picture earler. its so sad. : /

sorry. not very constructive.

[kashkool.livejournal.com]

Israel , and probably some other Arab regimes, think that the intensive bombing and pornographic murder in Gaza would force the Palestinian main street to abandon or rise up against Hamas. This was undoubtedly the goal behind the harsh blockade of Gaza . But of course no serious uprising against Hamas took place.

From my observations of the general mood in Gaza and Palestine in general, I don’t think that even those who hate Hamas would rise up against it, mainly because of the broad-based support it enjoys. Yes, many people may be quite satisfied seeing Israel bomb Hamas targets, but their ability to mobilize the Palestinian street against the movement is very limited.

Moreover, the anti-Hamas elements know that they won’t be able to successfully confront Hamas’s supporters in the streets.

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

You sure do like the word "pornographic".

[weswilson]

His Latfuff fixation keeps him looking at cartoons drawn of political figures furiously masturbating over death and suffering.

[ltmurdoch.livejournal.com]

So you're saying that if Palestinians wanted to rise up against Hamas, then Hamas would blow them the fuck up. Well, that's leadership for ya!

[fleaplus.livejournal.com]

> From my observations of the general mood in Gaza and Palestine in general, I don’t think that even those who hate Hamas would rise up against it, mainly because of the broad-based support it enjoys.

I don't know what the current stats are, but according to a poll from November 73% of Palestinians wanted to dissolve the Hamas-controlled parliament and hold new elections in January 2009:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/03/content_10300973.htm

According to the same poll, "If new elections were held in January 2009, 48 percent of the surveyed will vote for Fatah while 12.3 will elect Hamas."

No. Just no.

[savagemind.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_political/1973070.html

Re: No. Just no.

[weswilson]

What's your point?

Re: No. Just no.

[savagemind.livejournal.com]

As I said to xforge in another thread: we are kidding ourselves if we think that the only people who are getting killed are militants. Hamas will only be strengthened by this offensive.

I fail to see the point of your image, unless you think that I actually support the violent factions in Palestine or that I'm pro-Palestine. The purpose of the link was to point out the over-simplification (and, frankly, demonization) of your cartoon, not to suggest that Israelis haven't suffered as well. There are more than enough bodies on either side of the conflict to justify that they each lay their weapons down.

Re: No. Just no.

[weswilson]

Yes... and that's worked so well the other times it's been tried?

Where have I insinuated that the only people being killed are militants? The cartoon doesn't have to be taken literally, where a rocket means an actual rocket. The idea is that firing into Israel wildly brings shit back onto you. It seems that most people in the world recognize the futility of firing rockets blindly at Israel except the people who want Israel to actually leave them alone.

Re: No. Just no.

[savagemind.livejournal.com]

Yes... and that's worked so well the other times it's been tried?

I wasn't aware that it had ever been tried. Settlements have been agreed upon and that has calmed the bloodshed for brief periods, but peace isn't the goal of either party right now.

Where have I insinuated that the only people being killed are militants?

Nowhere. The cartoon does it.

The cartoon doesn't have to be taken literally, where a rocket means an actual rocket. The idea is that firing into Israel wildly brings shit back onto you. It seems that most people in the world recognize the futility of firing rockets blindly at Israel except the people who want Israel to actually leave them alone.

I understand, except that even in a metaphorical sense it fails. The implication is that Hamas is reaping what it has sown and that Hamas didn't want or expect this conflict. Hamas and the hard-right leaders of Israel have a lot in common...they wouldn't be in power if it weren't for the other. This war is great PR for both Hamas and the far-right in Israel (the "zionists" or whatever the hell they're called). Unfortunately they aren't just killing each other, though...if I was drawing that cartoon I'd show the rocket whizzing off-course into a mosque.

Re: No. Just no.

[weswilson]

The name of the cartoon is "Blowback". The point of the cartoon is simple. If Hamas wanted a big bunch of war in their face, they accomplished it by shooting rockets into Israel. The look on the face of the terrorist is enough to clearly show that the person who fired the rocket did not expect it to come back in their face. I honestly think that most people over there expect casualties, but are always surprised when it happens to themselves or their families.

Your need for interpreting this literally is really confusing.

Re: No. Just no.

[savagemind.livejournal.com]

For the last time, it isn't a literal interpretation. The implication that this is somehow blowing up in Hamas' face instead of exactly what they want is the issue. It's that big dumb look on the guy's face and the idea that Hamas is the one taking the hit.

Re: No. Just no.

[weswilson]

Whatever. "I'm not taking it literally, but the guy labeled Hamas is ONLY Hamas and not the country they stand for or the people around them."

Re: No. Just no.

[savagemind.livejournal.com]

If the artist intended for the figure with the "Hamas" label to represent the whole of the Palestinian people then I was too generous when I accused him or her of failing.

[weswilson]

One would think, with the deck stacked so heavily against them, that they'd stop shooting rockets into Israel and bringing the IDF down on their friends and neighbors. But one can never count on people to act in their own best interest.

[pacotelic.livejournal.com]

Their incentives preclude surrender. The more Israel bombs them, the more they can call for vengance. The attitudes of Hamas towards its people are similar to Irish revolutionaries circa 1915. To whit: The movement must be washed in blood of innocents to gain the moral standing it needs to prevail.

/tl;dr

[weswilson]

agreed... but there is no denying that it is a self-destructive path to walk down.

And this cartoon is essentially saying that... but people keep arguing against the message.

[weswilson]

It begins with a recognition that neither side has any existing imperative to give the other side what they want. With that in mind, it's important to realize who has the strongest hand in this poker game... and that's Israel. Thus, it's up to the Palestinians to find a way to deal with the people who have the power... or else they are going to get smacked by it over and over again. I'm not saying Israel has been clean in this, but time and time again they have shown that they will DOMINATE any military that is thrown against them. The Palestinian desire to continue to spit in their captor's eye is not going to get them freedom... and doesn't have any historical evidence of producing anything but misery. Their efforts ARE having blowback... and they need to recognise it.

[pacotelic.livejournal.com]

Nonviolent resistance by Palestinians congregate in numbers at places that provoke a rxn fom IDF, dismantle that 30 foot wall, or stay in a settler camp past sundown.

[torasama.livejournal.com]

That's taking shooting yourself in the foot to a whole 'nother level.