[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2014-06-30 10:47 pm (UTC)(link)
No whore pills for you*

*Viagra, penis pumps, vasectomies still covered. Also, investments in abortion product firms.

[identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com 2014-06-30 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Got more info on that last point?

[identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 02:22 am (UTC)(link)
This should be reason enough to throw out their case as an act of bad faith.

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 02:43 am (UTC)(link)
We'd both think so and still be wrong, somehow. Hobby Lobby also thinks that IUD's are abortifactants and covered the other forms of birth control prior to filing their suit.

[identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 02:57 am (UTC)(link)
I don't have an issue with the IUDs as abortificants argument, I can see how they get there (well, I do have an issue with it, and I think they're wrong, but I can see how they get there). I'm not sure about US law, but here there's an implied duty of good faith in contracts and legal documents; a contract or a lawsuit can be deemed invalid if it's shown a party was acting in bad faith.

This is almost the perfect example of acting in bad faith.
Edited 2014-07-01 02:57 (UTC)

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 03:39 am (UTC)(link)
I find the childish insistence of religious people that life starts at conception, problematic at best. There's a reason that no civil or legal rulings have ever made in favor of that position.

Hobby Lobby is run by shitheads. The remedy now is a market remedy. Losing business.

[identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 12:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Didn't Chick Fil A* increase business after it came out all homophobic? I'm not sure this will harm their business in many places.

*or whatever it's called, "chick filler" is how I always read it, so I always think there's innuendo in the name, which is funny in this context.

[identity profile] blackdwarv.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 01:28 pm (UTC)(link)
They had a momentary spike as the Fox Newsheads flocked to them for a day or two, then went back to scrabbling along.

I have to say, I've never actually seen one.

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 03:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, well that's chicken. And notable dunderheads like the Palins made a big point about eating there. Because the love of Jeebus and hating gays goes together.

Hobby Lobby appeals to a more niche market. Instead of irritating a smaller group, they went after women, that 50% of the population group.

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 04:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Hobby Lobby appeals to a more niche market. Instead of irritating a smaller group, they went after women, that 50% of the population group.

How does offering most contraceptives constitute going after women?

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 04:35 pm (UTC)(link)
100% of the users of IUD's and morning-after pills are women.

If Hobby Lobby really had principles, they'd probably stop those investments in abortion-related products and doing most of their buying from China, the land of forced abortions.

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 04:51 pm (UTC)(link)
100% of the users of IUD's and morning-after pills are women.

And? The point was their religious rights, it had nothing to do with the gender of who was using the contraceptives.

If Hobby Lobby really had principles, they'd probably stop those investments in abortion-related products and doing most of their buying from China, the land of forced abortions.

That's at least a reasonable criticism, even if it's irrelevant to this specific case.

[identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 05:15 pm (UTC)(link)
And? The point was their religious rights, it had nothing to do with the gender of who was using the contraceptives.

And a lot of men have abortions, I guess. That was the key, right? - abortifacients or something.

The irrational beliefs of an employer definitely should take precedence over the real, material health needs of women..

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 05:23 pm (UTC)(link)
And a lot of men have abortions, I guess. That was the key, right? - abortifacients or something.

Yes, abortifacients. If there's some sort of prescription that men can take that causes abortions, those would be opposed, too.

The irrational beliefs of an employer definitely should take precedence over the real, material health needs of women..

The beliefs of the employer, irrational or not, have no impact over the desired material health products of the women. Merely the funding of it.

[identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:08 pm (UTC)(link)
The beliefs of the employer, irrational or not, have no impact over the desired material health products of the women. Merely the funding of it.

But you know how the world goes: no funds, no goods and services.

Though, I presume this will be taken care of, and the taxpayers in general will likely pay for these Devil products.

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)
But you know how the world goes: no funds, no goods and services.

Sure. Thankfully, these people get wages for their work.

Though, I presume this will be taken care of, and the taxpayers in general will likely pay for these Devil products.

I don't see such a regulation getting out of the House.

[identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Tsk, tsk, more obstacle for poor voters,
and more obstacles for women - what a guy,
what a philosophy!

Go, Corporate, Go!

[identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:09 pm (UTC)(link)
That's at least a reasonable criticism, even if it's irrelevant to this specific case.

But doesn't it tell us something about the genuineness of their beliefs?

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Not even a little bit. Their genuine belief involves direct action, not indirect.

[identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I bet you can keep a straight-face too.

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:19 pm (UTC)(link)
The truth is easy to tell.

[identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
The trick is believing that there is one Great Truth,
which I find all the more awesome from an atheist.

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 06:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Not "one Great Truth," but the idea that there is not a Right and Wrong on many/most issues doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
And? The point was their religious rights, it had nothing to do with the gender of who was using the contraceptives.

Funny how the exercise of religious rights always ends up being restrictions that affect only women. Or maybe funny is the wrong work and "telling" is the more correct word to use.

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 09:28 pm (UTC)(link)
A constant? An inevitability?

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2014-07-01 09:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Patriarchy, misogyny, cultural traditions of viewing women as property.

[identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com 2014-07-02 02:46 am (UTC)(link)
No, that's a bridge much too far.

[identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com 2014-07-02 03:04 am (UTC)(link)
I can't help it if you want to defend things you don't understand. You want to fall back and claim some sort of biological essentialism but these religious traditions have their roots in a series of assumptions about human nature that are tribalistic and frankly backwards.

[identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com 2014-07-02 08:15 am (UTC)(link)
I would imagine their market is heavily biased towards women too...