I think you're confusing willingness with consent.
For instance, thirteen year old can be willing, even eager, to have sex, but is not usually considered to be able to consent to sex.
In a purely legal sense, this is recognised elsewhere. Piercing and tattoo studios may not be legally allowed to offer their services to drunk persons. Contract law may require documents to be signed 'under sound mind'. These sorts of requirements go beyond 'willingness'.
But it's surely even more obvious in a purely moral sense.
Let's put the concepts away for a moment; let's imagine that you have a friend who is intoxicated to the point of not really being fully aware of what they are doing and very definite not in a sound mind to make decisions that are in their best interests (as might be judged by themselves when they're sober).
I'd say that most perspectives on morality suggest that the appropriate behaviour is to safeguard their interests; to make sure that they don't do things that are harmful to themselves, to guide them away from decisions that they will regret in the morning, and to generally be 'a good friend'.
I'd also say that most perspectives on morality would suggest that taking advantage of them is not morally appropriate. You certainly shouldn't try to convince them into behaviour that is to your advantage but which you know they will regret, and you shouldn't even do it if it's their own spontaneous idea. Even if we were just talking about a very drunk friend trying to gift me with something more expensive that they'd regret giving to me the next day, I still wouldn't be prepared to accept that gift until they'd confirmed the gesture whilst sober.
So, even if we avoid words like 'rape' or 'consent', if you have sex with someone who is so intoxicated that they can't stand and can't remember what is happening from one moment to the next, you are a vile person, Whatever we call that behaviour, it's disgusting and it ought to be illegal.
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2013-03-29 01:30 am (UTC)For instance, thirteen year old can be willing, even eager, to have sex, but is not usually considered to be able to consent to sex.
In a purely legal sense, this is recognised elsewhere. Piercing and tattoo studios may not be legally allowed to offer their services to drunk persons. Contract law may require documents to be signed 'under sound mind'. These sorts of requirements go beyond 'willingness'.
But it's surely even more obvious in a purely moral sense.
Let's put the concepts away for a moment; let's imagine that you have a friend who is intoxicated to the point of not really being fully aware of what they are doing and very definite not in a sound mind to make decisions that are in their best interests (as might be judged by themselves when they're sober).
I'd say that most perspectives on morality suggest that the appropriate behaviour is to safeguard their interests; to make sure that they don't do things that are harmful to themselves, to guide them away from decisions that they will regret in the morning, and to generally be 'a good friend'.
I'd also say that most perspectives on morality would suggest that taking advantage of them is not morally appropriate. You certainly shouldn't try to convince them into behaviour that is to your advantage but which you know they will regret, and you shouldn't even do it if it's their own spontaneous idea. Even if we were just talking about a very drunk friend trying to gift me with something more expensive that they'd regret giving to me the next day, I still wouldn't be prepared to accept that gift until they'd confirmed the gesture whilst sober.
So, even if we avoid words like 'rape' or 'consent', if you have sex with someone who is so intoxicated that they can't stand and can't remember what is happening from one moment to the next, you are a vile person, Whatever we call that behaviour, it's disgusting and it ought to be illegal.