http://rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] politicartoons2013-03-24 12:17 am
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[identity profile] wight1984.livejournal.com 2013-03-25 12:14 am (UTC)(link)
My point is that the UK's lower homicide rate isn't a relevant fact unless you can make a case that it's due to gun regulation laws (which I find dubious).

The UK's change in homicide rate before and since handguns were criminalised is at least a relevant statistic, even though it does still require careful interpretation (and needs to be combined with similar legal changes in other nations if we want to establish a trend),

Also; when it comes to statistics, I think we should be careful about criticising people for 'explaining away' inconvenient statistics. It is what you essentially did in response to the statistic that madscience. It's unfortunate that people's interpretation tends to be biased towards their pre-existing political beliefs and attitudes, but we're all engage in interpretation whenever we interact with statistics (or at least we should be... we shouldn't be taking them at face value)
Edited 2013-03-25 00:18 (UTC)

[identity profile] rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com 2013-03-25 12:22 am (UTC)(link)
No I explained with properly cited material why madscience's claims were dubious, and even if they were true they run counter to his narrative. This is a common and effective argument tactic called modus tollens. I did not explain away the deaths of 2500 people because I found them to be ideologically inconvenient. I don't particularly care one way or the other about guns, I care about accurately reflecting reality.

[identity profile] wight1984.livejournal.com 2013-03-25 07:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I've seen the dialogue, although nothing quite so clear-cut that I would label as denying the consequent.

You have presented a different interpretation of the available data.

[identity profile] rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com 2013-03-25 08:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I dunno I pretty much solely took issue with his dubious claim that gun control made violent crime worse to the degrees he mentioned.

You have presented a different interpretation of the available data.

Are we entering the realm of solipsism now? Or can you give me any feedback as to which data we are talking about? I have no interpretation of madscience's sources, because those sources are garbage.

[identity profile] madscience.livejournal.com 2013-03-25 05:36 am (UTC)(link)
The funny thing is, she didn't even "explain away" my statistics. If you give even a cursory read to the documents she "properly cited", you'll see that one of them is from 1991, and the other clearly states that the crime counting rules changed after the 2006 survey, so the change cannot explain the surge in crime from 1997-2005.

I kind of want to see how many more times she'll hang herself with her own rope, but I'm getting sleepy.

[identity profile] rowsdowerisms.livejournal.com 2013-03-25 05:55 am (UTC)(link)
No it doesn't state that. And I'm a dude for the record.
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