they had to put up that metal mesh thing because israeli settlers were compelled by their manifest destiny to lob rocks and cinderblocks onto palestinians. since they put up the shark cage they've only had to worry about those same settlers lobbing uncapped bottles of bleach and buckets of urine.
they're opportunists, but you're just a child who can't handle disagreement.
you'll believe anything that netanyahu and his likud butchers say because you can't reconcile moral gray areas. an atrocity committed on behalf of israel can't possibly be an atrocity if they're using it to try and counter war criminals, right?
it doesn't change the fact that there's a powerful israeli faction with a vested interest in closing the palestinians off like they were sardines and systematically "repopulating" them, which is somehow pretty much okay to enough of the world that i wonder if this is just a slice of diplomatic insanity or if soon the world will be able to start accepting racist apartheid states again.
Merig, my roommate is Israeli (from Ashdot), so don't think I don't sympathize. And again, no one is defending terror groups who murder civilians and use violence to achieve their goals.
All that people are trying to say is that a) there are two sides to the Israeli-Palestinian debate, and it accomplishes nothing to dismiss the larger debate because of the specific actions of Hamas/Hezbollah (they are part of the conflict, but not the solution), and b) you cannot absolve Israel when they kill civilians in their attacks, whether defensive or offensive. If killing civilians is wrong, then it's wrong. Period.
you do understand that Israel can't "close off" palestinians since Israel does not control all the borders. For some reason arabic muslim nations of Jordan and Egypt agree with Israel on it.
Killing civilians is wrong but you can try as hard as you can not to kill civilians when the other side actually puts them in front of your bullets and hides behind civilians - there will be civilian casualties.
The state is def. trying to whitewash. They're also trying to portray themselves as this European-esque bastion of democracy and liberal rights, which is an interesting misrepresentation of what is actually going on. It's also obvious that this is a calculated effort since there is talk of very corporate-esque "rebranding."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1026633.html
So sure, i has a misunderstanding of the appearance of Israelis, but it is hardly an accident.
They sure can curtail their free movement through checkpoints and systematically jail and deny them entry based on their identity cards. What is that, then?
It's not about kicking out the civilians. It's about allowing Palestinians free movement and rights in/return to their homeland and curtailing the ridiculous behaviour of the state. I don't see how that can be interpreted as "wiping Israel off the map."
slightly different but on topic. i thought you might neutrally like this http://community.livejournal.com/politicartoons/1654952.html?thread=35775400#t35775400
I'm afraid that for example israeli gay community will not agree with you. Since Israel recognizes same sex marriages and we are still having a debate on it here.
Palestinians who try to visit their families are routinely either turned away at the border or jailed without charge. Ask any regular Palestinian civilian who has left (for school, say) and tried to return for a visit. They all have stories.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:31 pm (UTC)your positions are indeed morally consistent
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:32 pm (UTC)If you can color human shields let me know.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:39 pm (UTC)you'll believe anything that netanyahu and his likud butchers say because you can't reconcile moral gray areas. an atrocity committed on behalf of israel can't possibly be an atrocity if they're using it to try and counter war criminals, right?
it doesn't change the fact that there's a powerful israeli faction with a vested interest in closing the palestinians off like they were sardines and systematically "repopulating" them, which is somehow pretty much okay to enough of the world that i wonder if this is just a slice of diplomatic insanity or if soon the world will be able to start accepting racist apartheid states again.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:42 pm (UTC)lolllllll yeah i can understand needing extra illumination the middle east in broad daylight
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:46 pm (UTC)All that people are trying to say is that a) there are two sides to the Israeli-Palestinian debate, and it accomplishes nothing to dismiss the larger debate because of the specific actions of Hamas/Hezbollah (they are part of the conflict, but not the solution), and b) you cannot absolve Israel when they kill civilians in their attacks, whether defensive or offensive. If killing civilians is wrong, then it's wrong. Period.
That's all people are trying to say here.
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:52 pm (UTC)whatever fits your confirmation bias
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 09:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:09 pm (UTC)http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1026633.html
So sure,
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:29 pm (UTC)http://www.flwi.ugent.be/cie/Palestina/palestina234.htm
no subject
Date: 2009-10-27 10:31 pm (UTC)