politicartoons | (no subject)

Oh, no. LOL.

I am a huge Bernie Sanders fan. I would love to have him as POTUS. I just wish I thought he was electable, not just for the Dem nomination, but for the general election.

If Hillary does get the nomination, I'll support her, because I want a Democrat in the White House badly. If nothing else, the SCOTUS needs to be protected from the influx of forced birthers, misogynists, homophobes, racists, and corporate ass-kissers that any of the GOP nominees would appoint to fill any future vacancies. But at this point in time, she's actually my second choice (of those who are actually running).

Edited 2015-08-20 20:10 (UTC)

I'm sorry you don't think he is electable.

I do believe he is electable, if that makes you feel any better.

We did just elect a black guy who's middle name is HUSSEIN

I'm not ready to start crossing people off list right about now.

Fuck, Senor Trump is even a (very scary) possibility.

I'm pretty sure col. sanders has lost the chicken vote.

crispy or classic? :)

This is quite poignant as all the scaredy-cat Dems who say: "i like Sanders, but I worry about his electability" are totally chickens and selling themselves (and the party, and thus the country) short.

So what's the case for his electability? I would agree that his message better serves the masses of people who want and need better jobs, more pay, more security in their lives, than anything they're likely to get from Hillary and certainly anything the con artists on the GOP side will even sniff at. But what I don't see is an electorate ready to listen to him or think about his plans. I see a solid conservative core committed to its idiotic process and the sleazeballs it produces and a moderate plurality that's exhausted by years of obstruction that - while not Obama's fault by any means - seems unlikely to persuade them that the next step is to doubledown on what Obama has managed to achieve.

I'm open-minded about Sanders, but what I'd like to see is a plan to appeal to the moderates and evidence that the moderates will respond to it. Right now, to me, it looks like a toss-up between left and right mendacity, which is at least comfortably familiar. I don't see any reason to think that the moderates are ready to grow up.

So I'm not sure if you are going off of anything beyond you gut feelings here, and while gut feelings are hard to ignore, they are also rather hard to argue against.

My thinking goes like this: if Sanders defeats the Clinton machine, he shows he is a winner and has at least the support of the democrats who vote. Now, Sanders is likely to appeal strongly to independents--given that he is the longest serving Independent in congress in the history of the US. The question of Sanders appeal to republican voters is less certain, but, I think there is rather large discontent within the ranks of the GOP--as witnessed by the large number of primary candidates they are fielding.

I also think that Sanders is likely to bring a large number of first-time voters (or folks who haven't voted in decades perhaps) into the system because he is unlike other politicians--primarily, in that his message has remained the same for 40 years. That sort of integrity is new to alot of voters, and they, surprise surprise, like a politician who means what they say, and says what they mean. These new (or newly returned) voters are perhaps not represented in the polling data that is currently available, or that may be available all the way through election day. I mean, sure, some polls do "registered voters" vs "likely voters" but my argument is that who is likely to vote is altered by who the candidate being voted for is. Bernie can turn more non-voters into voters.

Do you realize how far left he is in comparison to the rest of the nation?

Tired trope is tired.

It's the same thing as the ACA. Ask people about Obamacare, they hate it. Ask people about the *actual provisions* and they like it.

Bernie is not far left--he's painted that way by knuckle-heads like you.

If that's what gets you through the night, I guess. Polling indicates that you're more likely to be elected if you're a Muslim than a socialist, and the "state socialism" argument he makes isn't going to be parsed well by the electorate.

Then again, Bernie Sanders isn't winning the primary, so it's all a bit of a moot point and merely a thought exercise.

Polling indicates that you're more likely to be elected if you're a Muslim than a socialist,

Is that why your team spent so much energy and resources trying to convince us that Obama was a Muslim?

And a socialist, don't forget. :P

It's comments like these that make me think you are self-aware of the absurdity of what you say.

But then you go and say things like, "I want Rick Perry to be the next president" which is clearly indicative of someone who has lost their brain.

The sarcasm of what you replied to was clearly not well-understood, but the point is still the same. Bernie Sanders has no makeup that would benefit him in the general election were he to somehow get there.

Yet he keeps climbing in the polls....

I mean sure, he has a long road ahead of him, but he's got a name recognition problem, not a dislike problem. When he becomes known, he does not become disliked. That's not true of all unknown entities.

Yet he keeps climbing in the polls....

One would expect that in what is basically a two-person race. He's just as much the "not Hillary" as anyone else could be if he wasn't there.

I mean sure, he has a long road ahead of him, but he's got a name recognition problem, not a dislike problem.

This may be true of Democrats (a problem in and of itself), but his brand of politics is poison in a general election. You're asking for a Mondale-esque loss with him.

It's like how I was into Ron Paul in 2008. I didn't have any fantasies of him actually winning, and it wasn't as if he was going to have the sort of crossover appeal that wins an election.

Why is the "not hilary" vote going to Bernie instead of Martin O'Malley or Lincoln Chaffee?

Oh, right, cause people like Bernie.

Also, you're wrong in Bernie not having crossover appeal.

In his home state of VT, the most recent election he ran in, also had a Gov. race in VT.

The democratic Gov got just barely over 50% of the vote. Bernie got 70%. That means 20% of the voters who didn't like the Democratic Gov, and voted for the GOP Gov, also voted for Bernie.

It's not like Bernie has been re-elected only by Dem voters. He wins over GOP voters by not being a lying shill, like most GOP (and sadly, like lots, maybe most, I'm not sure) Dem, politicians too.

Bernie has crossover appeal--it's why he is an IND and not a DEM.

Why is the "not hilary" vote going to Bernie instead of Martin O'Malley or Lincoln Chaffee?

Partially because he was the first alternative available, partially name recognition, partially because it's 15 months out.

Bernie has crossover appeal--it's why he is an IND and not a DEM.

He's an independent because the Democrats aren't far enough left for him, and he's running in the Democratic primary anyway. So much for that.

That's right! How'd that work out for you?

It's gonna be a real funny thing when everyone who was citing polls has egg on their face.

How'd that "my opponent is muslim and socialist" work out for the GOP the last 2 presidential elections?

The problem is the lack of credibility of the claims to Obama. Not quite the same with Bernie Sanders.

You seem to be painfully unaware of the boy who cried wolf.

Worse yet, bernie is a Democratic Socialist. So he's about as socialist as public libraries and public roads.

So you aren't really gonna get a lot of traction from that particular attempted jab.

Worse yet, bernie is a Democratic Socialist. So he's about as socialist as public libraries and public roads.

So you aren't really gonna get a lot of traction from that particular attempted jab.

And if you think "Democratic socialist" means much to the average voter, you hold them in higher regard than I.

But this is all a thought exercise anyway.

It's amusing to me, that you hold voters in a low regard, and yet you want them to decide what laws you must live by.

Are you a petty tyrant at heart?

I trust voters enough to know that "socialist in the style of Scandanavia" is not their grand-pappy's socialism.
I trust voters enough to know that "socialism in the style of Western (not Eastern!) Europe" isn't such a bad thing.

And you're right. It's a thought exercise, cause Bernie will win, and that will be that.

No, I'm not gonna put money on it.

After a couple debates I might. After Iowa I will recant or double down.

It's amusing to me, that you hold voters in a low regard, and yet you want them to decide what laws you must live by.

Are you a petty tyrant at heart?

Not a petty tyrant, just a realist.

I trust voters enough to know that "socialist in the style of Scandanavia" is not their grand-pappy's socialism.
I trust voters enough to know that "socialism in the style of Western (not Eastern!) Europe" isn't such a bad thing.

Good on you, then.

And you're right. It's a thought exercise, cause Bernie will win, and that will be that.

No, I'm not gonna put money on it.

Well, that's some confidence. There's $5 on the table for your chosen charity if you come around.

His integrity is why he will get my vote.

Believe me, I'm not crossing anybody off the list yet. It's really early days right now, much too soon (for me) to feel comfortable making predictions. Right now, I'm just watching the whole thing unfold and waiting to see what happens.

Edited 2015-08-22 22:17 (UTC)

*giggles*