politicartoons | (no subject)

That second one is perfect.

Yeah, if you're retarded.

Keep screaming at that wall.

To put it a bit more nicely, the second one ignores a lot of stuff about the idealist view of Libertarianism. Haliburton is an almost comically over-the-top obscene version of the Evil Military Industrial Complex, which is pretty much the opposite of Libertarianism, which is anti-war and anti government welfare for corporations.

You have to admit that the first one is funny.

Edited 2013-10-08 23:41 (UTC)

The libertarian ideal, however, is just as fantastical as ALL ideals.

I mean, sheeet, ideally, we don't need any govt cause we can all just be nice to one another.

Now since we know that ain't gonna happen...

I see no reason to think that reducing the size of govt will not empower private corporations.
They will have more lawyers, a bigger bankroll, and more ways to skirt the laws. I don't think Wal-Mart fares any better than Haliburton.

I mean, the history of labor is a pretty clear example of what happens when the govt DOES NOT regulate capitalism.

Like, why wouldn't a company employ child-labor? Only cause they are denied the option, by law.

The libertarian ideal, however, is just as fantastical as ALL ideals.

Which is why I'm not a libertarian (among many other things) anymore. It's an unworkable ideal.

I'm not endorsing libertarianism, just explaining the populist version of it in relation to the picture. He's right even though I wouldn't say that someone is retarded for the meme. Using Haliburton as a libertarian ideal is inaccurate. The government enriches corporations that would otherwise go out of business providing them with situations (war), jobs and money.

Giant companies already have no problems using child labor and the Western world has no problems consuming goods made by the hands of children. Greed and poverty are ugly.

The issue being that if Libertarians get their way then yes, the government will stop using Haliburton, but Walmart and Shell will probably start.

Exactly!

You have to understand that to a Lolbertarian of

trog's caliber, the state is the cause of all evil. Without the state, humans would be innocent and formless.

It's ALL the states fault, according to Trog. That and black people. Some people just aren't good enough for freedom in his eyes.

Actually, no. Individuals are the cause of evil. Giving some individuals immense power over others simply magnifies that evil. Better to have voluntarism than coercion.

Seems reasonable.

Except that he's right about the meme about Haliburton. I can't attest to his other qualities.

I'm not fond of The Government as a massive singular entity, but like others, I like my roads paved and my food safe, so I compromise.

Really? Halliburton is the libertarian ideal? A partnership between government and a "private" company whose former CEO is the VP of the United States, whereby the government invades and destroys foreign countries and gives Halliburton contracts to "fix" them using tax dollars?

This is what you think libertarianism is? I pity you. I really do.

Libertarianism is anarchy for rich fucks.

Libertarianism is living in a modern state and crying that everything that created that society is an egregious theft and abuse of individual liberty.

There are plenty of libertarian ideals and seemingly an equal number of excuses for them not being observed anywhere in the real world. In this way, libertarians are as bad as any full-blown Marxist. And the closest example of a libertarian state is:

I've made this comparison elsewhere, I think, but libertarians are a lot like anti-vaxxers. Only someone living with the incredible privilege of never having to spend their entire childhoods in terror of contracting a disease that would most likely kill them, or at best cripple them (or leave them in an iron lung) could dare to suggest that people were better off without vaccinations.

Likewise, only someone living in the incredible luxury and advancement made possible by modern society could look at the mechanisms that have created that very luxury and say: "OMG, these structures are oppressing me!"*

*not to say we can't criticize societal structures/refine them - but people screaming that taxation is theft are stupid. They're like people who read Atlas Shrugged, read the bit about Nathaniel Taggart (who was supposedly a real self-made man) and nod sagely, forgetting entirely that railroads were never possible in real life without MASSIVE governmental involvement and support paid by, you guessed it, taxes.

Also, that whole thing about how Nathaniel Taggart was a murderer and general piece of shit, but hey, he made MONEY, so yay! He's a HERO! Aren't impossible fairy tales grand?

My mom had both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. Growing up, I couldn't bring myself to read them and I think I read every other book in the house.

Ayn Rand collected Social Security when push came to shove - that's the thing about impossible fairy tails, they don't work in the real world.

The rest of us look at the system and see something that needs to be reformed, not demolished.

wanna know something kind of boggling and scary? I know a highly intelligent woman who is a great intellectual believer in Libertarianism... who works as a scientist at the CDC.

There are at least three people I know just like her at the CDC. She's read all the books (and I mean the real books, not fucking Ayn Rand) by von mises and Rothschild etc. shes' on the mailing list that sends her missives every month.

But she works for the CDC

that kind of freaks me out yanno?

You really enjoy misrepresenting libertarianism, don't you?

Many Libertarians don't believe that the governmental structures currently in place, many of which were part of what built this current society, are oppressing them?

Many Libertarians don't believe that taxation is theft?

Many Libertarians don't value Ayn Rand's philosophies and her books?

Many Libertarians don't find a compelling moral tale in the story of Dagny and of her ancestor Nathanial?

Or is it just that you're the arbiter of what is, and isn't, Libertarianism, and those who I've interacted with aren't true Libertarians?

If by "more government," you mean the same amount of government...

dontcha know, statists want to control EVERYTHING!!

See also: Jon Stewart on Glen Beck, Conservative Libertarian sketch

statists want to control EVERYTHING!!

Mostly we want to make people cry but sure.

"Capitalists, if you think that you can play footsies with these people, you're wrong. They will come for you and drag you into the streets and kill you...they're Marxist radicals...these guys are worse than Robespierre from the French Revolution...they'll kill everybody."

Yup. The Republicans are throwing a tantrum because they can't have their way. And Obama is doing everything he can to make that tantrum as painful as possible for the American people, in the hope that it will cause political harm to the Republicans... the welfare of the country be damned! Neither side cares about anything except political power.

Obama doomed his own legacy when he decided to pursue a fascist insurance mandate instead of real socialized health care. Defeating Obamacare is the single most important issue facing the country right now. So the Republicans are doing the right thing, even if it's for the wrong reasons.

"It's objectively better than the previous system in every way, even though it is *still* wasteful in favour of the looters, because we couldn't get a *good* system past the obstructionist Republicans. Still, while this isn't good, it's *way* better than what we had before. It's the Republican plan, designed by Republicans, implemented in the test cases by Republicans, and it's crap... but it's better than nothing, and it's the only thing we could get Republicans to agree with."

That's not "a fascist insurance mandate", and defeating "better-but-not-great health care for poor people" is not the most important issue facing your country. Also: Since it's passed? There's been two elections and a metric crapload of legal efforts to repeal it, and every last one of them has resoundingly failed, because while it is crap and not as good as an actual health care plan? The ACA is still way better than what you HAD.

No, it's objectively worse than the previous system for most individuals and for the country as a whole. Critics of the shutdown keep talking about a minority holding the rest of us hostage, but that's precisely what the ACA is all about.