politicartoons | (no subject)

He's lucky he didn't get kung fu'ed! ;)

Hey now, kung fu is Chinese! She obviously knows tae kwon do.

Americans still can't distinguish Cubans and Puerto Ricans. These distinction obviously take time to learn.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/10-ridiculously-offensive-things-people-tell-asian-women-on

Good god. I was hoping the video below was a bit exaggerated, but nope nope nope.

Yeah, that thing at Buzzfeed was a disgusting read.

Sideways WHAT?! Holy shit.

Am I the only person who lmfao'd at #4? Seriously, I need to go to Korea with the "friend" that probably doesn't exist lol. It sounds like an adventure.

See also. (This lady's ten kinds of awesome, in my opinion.)

"You're from Tokyo? Do you know this guy..."

That's not shit people say to Asians, that's shit people say to everyone. In England I get people mentioning the other Irish people they know as if we all know each other and when I've been in the US that just broadens to any European person they know.

I'm prepared to wager that when people from New York visits California they regularly find somebody who, whether genuinely that daft or desperately groping for a conversational gambit, mention that they know someone else from New York so maybe you know them too....

As a New Yorker, I never had it happen until it reaches the hyperlocal point like a similar school/parish/neighborhood during a similar time.

Fair enough, I will lose my wager with you. Good job I never mentioned the stakes ;)

I've definitely had it many times as a European (more in Connecticut than New York but it's happened in both and I've never been anywhere else in the US except Philly and I was with people I already knew and not on my own striking up conversations with strangers when I was there).

Maybe it's not something white Americans do to each other and that makes it look racist, or maybe you've just been lucky and I'll win on aggregate.

My husband is a New Yorker (state not city) and he gets it all the time when not in New York. We've gotten, "You're American, do you know...?" as well.
I'm black and I've gotten the where are you really from, mostly from Africans. I've also been told that while my husband, who is white, is American I am not. Despite the fact that his family has been in the States for three generations and mine for three hundred years.
Sigh.
On the plus side, when we travel, from the Netherlands to Thailand, everyone thinks I'm local or localish while they take one look at my husband and just know he's American.

This is, like, the opposite scenario of a European stereotype of white Americans: ask a white American where they're from, and they'll automatically tell you what country in Europe their ancestors were from. And it's an accurate stereotype, because when white people ask each other where they're from, that's what they mean. At least that's how it was growing up in the Midwest... because in the Midwest, everyone knows where you're literally from... right here!

Edited 2013-05-30 05:13 (UTC)

Well if it was like that where you grew up, then everyone must be like that. I think I may have had people ask two or three times ever where my ancestors were from.

I never said or implied that "everyone must be like that". My point is that this video is ignorant and culturally insensitive in its depiction of the white guy.

Haha. White guys, they got it sooo hard.

I never said or implied that, either.

How is it culturally insensitive?

It ignores the fact that whites ask each other the same question with the same intended meaning, and depicts it as something racist when it's not.

Oh so you're putting in the assumption that he is all white people.

No, and that assumption isn't necessary for my point to be valid.

Then why does it matter he's white?

If you don't get it yet, you never will.

That was a nonanswer.

I'm glad you at least understood that.

I think you might have been able to make a decent argument for culturally inaccurate, but not culturally insensitive.

What's the difference?

Inaccurate suggests being factually incorrect. Insensitive suggests a lack of concern for the feelings of others.

I think you're right that similar phenomena appears amongst white Americans; as a British person, I've talked to white Americans who talk about their ancestry in similar terms as the man in the video talked about the woman's ancestry. To suggest that this phenomena is wholly racist would seem to be at least a little inaccurate (although I don't think entirely so).

Insensitive though? That would tend to imply that it's somehow offensive, upsetting or harmful.

To give an example; here is an article by someone concerned with cultural sensitivity regarding a fashion product: link (http://www.pradagee.com/urban-outfitters-culturally-insensitive/) (first one I found on google). Putting aside the merits of the argument, the 'sensitivity' issue isn't merely a matter of inaccuracy, but rather how the advert feels like an affront to the people of certain cultures.

It seems like you're arguing one thing and then presenting evidence for the opposite. Yes, there is a similar phenomenon among white Midwesterners; so the video is not inaccurate. But it's insensitive because it's intentionally an affront to people of that culture.

I don't think this is an affront to all white American culture.

It seems unlikely to me that the creators wanted you to read this as 'white Americans are stupid' but rather 'racists are stupid'.

I didn't say it was an affront to all white American culture. It's specifically an affront to white Midwesterners, who ask the question "where are you from?", meaning "where are your ancestors from?", with complete sincerity.

And you're correct, the creators clearly intended the message to be that racists are stupid. The cultural insensitivity is in the suggestion that the question is racist.

Let's suppose it is the case that they've got this wrong, that doesn't automatically suggest that their mistake was insensitive.

I'm not convinced that they have gotten it all-together wrong, but I think to cry 'insensitivity' there needs to be some sense in which the error was serious and damaging in some way. I really don't see either this advert or anything that this advert is indicative of being harmful to midwesterners.

In a culture where ethnic minorities are often considered to 'not be really American', it becomes problematic to ask such persons 'where are you really from?' after they've said they are from somewhere in America. In fact, best just skip the question entirely and say what you mean rather than use an inaccurate short-hand.

If that idea challenges the normal mode of speaking amongst midwesterners then the appropriate response isn't offence, it's for midwesterners to think more about how they speak.

Either way, it's hardly the sort of thing that will have a significantly negative impact on their lives. Let's not be bizarrely melodramatic about this.

"If that idea challenges the normal mode of speaking amongst midwesterners then the appropriate response isn't offence, it's for midwesterners to think more about how they speak."

Maybe... but only if people who make videos like this are willing to meet in the middle and stop being "bizarrely melodramatic" themselves.

It could be argued that this video is indulging in comedic exaggeration, but melodramatic seems a bit much.

I don't think it's even exaggerating; people have provided evidence of people online acting this badly and worse, so the character is not behaving in a way that is entirely detached from reality. Note that the video never claims that all or most white people behave in this way.

But, as said, any exaggeration (if any can be said to be present) is justified by the context of the video.

Also, from an entirely different angle; I don't think 'meeting in the middle' should be assumed to be ideal. It's an attractive idea because it has a 'ring of fairness' to it, but it's basically an argument to moderation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation). When we're talking about a privileged majority and a marginalised minority, it is a lot more important for there to be movement from the majority than it is for there to be movement from the minority.

"so the character is not behaving in a way that is entirely detached from reality"

As I keep pointing out, it's not detached from reality at all. It's a completely accurate depiction of how (some) white people speak. The problem is in depicting it as ignorant or racist.

"we're talking about a privileged majority and a marginalised minority

True... Asians are more privileged than whites, on average, and Midwesterners tend to be poorer and less privileged than the average white person.

"As I keep pointing out, it's not detached from reality at all. It's a completely accurate depiction of how (some) white people speak. The problem is in depicting it as ignorant or racist."

Do you think that there are no people who ask this question with racist meaning?

It is also a question I might hear in the UK, but directed at only non-white persons (because white people are generally assumed to be of white British origin). It would surprise me if there are no Americans who take the same attitude.

"True... Asians are more privileged than whites, on average, and Midwesterners tend to be poorer and less privileged than the average white person."

Let's not be obtuse here. I think you are well aware of which group I was taken as 'the priviledged majority' and 'the marginalised minority'.

If you want to take the position that Asian persons are more priviledged than white person then recognise that you are taking an unconventional and counter-intuitive position and make an argument for it, don't just state it in full awareness that I'm not going to agree.

Yeah, no. Whenever I ask a white person where they're from, they tell me what city they live in. If anyone were to ever answer me with, "Oh, I'm from New Zealand," I would immediately ask them what the scenery looks like and how the people and weed are there. And I'd be pissed if they didn't know because they've never been there, that's just where their dead great-great-great-great-grandmother lived in the 1600's. Maybe that's just because I live on the East Coast, though.

I'm English and I find that a lot of Americans online tell me that they're English as well, by which they mean that their ancestors were English. Always struck me as very bizarre... (I can kinda get why Americans may use it as shorthand amongst themselves, but to claim to be English when talking to an actually English person...?)

Over here in the UK, my impression is that conversations like that in the video do happen a lot with people from East and South Asia (who are considered very 'other', regardless of how many generations their family has been here), but not so much with black British people and not at all with white people with non-British ancestry (most/many of whom will quickly start to consider themselves as native after a couple of generations... nothing more ludicrous than catching someone with a suspiciously foreign surname on a racist rant about immigrants...)

Good god. take time to learn.

I'm from a murky pool in pangea.

I'm from the exploding heart of a dying star!

I know how she feels -- people immediately assume I'm a racist because I have white skin and white males are portrayed as being racists all the time as per this video. The hope is that one day white males will no longer be judged on the color of their skin and the fact that they have a penis and testicles, but on the content of their character.

Edited 2013-06-01 14:49 (UTC)