Just wondering what you all think....

[donkeyjon.livejournal.com]

Any folks here from NJ who can comment on this? If the information he's giving is factual, it sounds like the teacher's union is screwing over their own members.

Comments

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Except that he hasn't, but hey.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Yes he did.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Okay, when?

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/politicartoons/2182307.html?thread=50385315#t50385315

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Maddow's not to be trusted. What happened?

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

He lied.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

How?

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

By spontaneously creating facts about what happened in events that were easily falsifiable by watching video recordings of said events.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Such as?

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/politicartoons/2182307.html?thread=50385315#t50385315

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

If you're basing your belief on Maddow, I can confidently put this to rest as a lot of nothing.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

So by not watching the provided video clips of Christie lying and the clips of what Christie was lying about, you feel comfortable saying he hasn't lied?

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Well, you have yet to offer anything of use.

[lafinjack.livejournal.com]

Oh, OK.

[usekh.livejournal.com]

Well as you seem to be suffering from Maddow derangement syndrome here is another link (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/09/02/chris_christie_schundler/index.html)

There is your great lead. Lying, then when caught throwing a fellow republican under the bus by lying again.

I know I would want someone with that level of honesty and loyalty leading me.

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

So where's the lie, exactly?

[usekh.livejournal.com]

That the education commissioner(or whatever his title was) lied to Christie. He didn't. But he was thrown under the bus anyway.

timeline

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

1) NJ misses out in getting Race to the Top money.
2) Chrstie, behind the scenes, asks what happened.
3) His education guy goes "we fucked up. We needed to provide data from a specific year, and we failed to do so. This is a fuckup on our end and I take responsibility for it."
4) Christie goes "Well the Obama administration should have let us have a chance to get that data, or at least tell us that it was missing. I'm going to blame Obama."
5) His education guy goes "Now wait. This is my fuckup, not Obama's fuckup. Please don't make this about Obama."
6) Christie ignores his education guy, blames NJ losing out on $400 million dollars because 1,000 page documents are long ($400,000 of funding per page is just unreasonable?) and Obama didn't let them add the data needed let alone alert them of it being missing.
7) The people overseeing Race to the Top release the videos of the interviews made with NJ showing them telling NJ "hey, this part seems missing, can you show us where it is?" and NJ eventually admitting that it seems to be missing, countering Christie's claim that they never alerted NJ of the discrepancy and didn't give them a chance to show where the missing data was located.
8) Christie fires the guy in charge, claiming that he was the one who told Christie it was the Obama administration's fault and not his own team messing up in their report to the administration.
9) Education guy releases emails where he explicitly tells Christie it was his fault. He still takes full responsibility for the data being missing, but refuses to allow Christie to claim that he lied to Christie and the state of NJ.
10) People who praise Christie for his responsibility and accountability inevitably ignore all of this and claim Maddow can't be trusted.

Re: timeline

[malasadas.livejournal.com]

Don't forget:

11) If the damned application had been better overall, the points deducted for this missing data would not have mattered. Something else Christie doesn't like to talk about.

Re: timeline

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, that too.

Re: timeline

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

Maddow can't be trusted, but I'm not seeing the lie here. I see where Christie may have swapped out a point, but not that the intent was there.

That the guy didn't want to make it about Obama doesn't seem to matter here.

Re: timeline

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

I'm not seeing the lie here.

lie 1:

This is our Race to the Top application, the piece of paper that was included in error was one sheet of paper. In a over one thousand page application, 300 pages of application 700 of appendixes, there was one piece of paper placed in error in that application. It asked for a comparison of 2008 to 2009 numbers, it was placed in there as a comparison between 2010 and 2011 numbers, one piece of paper. That is the responsibility of the DOE for having put the wrong piece of paper in. I’m not going to fire somebody over this, this was a simple clerical error in putting together an application of this size.

reality:
He fired Bret Schundler after all.

lie 2:

When you are a reviewer in Washington, D.C. and you flip to that page in this application and it says ’08 ’09 numbers are requested and you see ’10 & 11, if you are a normal, thinking, breathing human being you pick up the phone and say ‘Hey, you sent this one wrong paper, can we get the information?’ or if you are really concerned about what the information is, it’s available on the Treasury website for ’08 & ’09 and you can look it up yourself. But then we went even further, when we went in for the personal interview, two weeks before the decision was made they raised the issue with us. Commissioner Schundler gave them the 08 &09 numbers two weeks before the decision was made. And the 08 – 09 comparison supports us getting the full number of points under that. This is the stuff, candidly, that drives people crazy about government and crazy about Washington. The first part of it is the mistake of putting the wrong piece of paper in. It drives people crazy and, believe me, I’m not thrilled about it. But the second part is, does anybody in Washington, D.C. have a lick of common sense? Pick up the phone and ask us for the number.

reality:
They did point out the error and ask for the correct numbers during the interview. Bret Schundler even tells Christie this yet Christine goes on a tirade about Washington not "getting it" and fart fart fart they have no common sense.

lie 3:

When the president comes back to New Jersey, he’s going to have to explain to the people of the state of New Jersey why he’s depriving them of $400 million that this application earned. Because one of his bureaucrats in Washington couldn’t pick up the phone and ask a question, couldn’t go on the internet and find information, or wouldn’t accept the verbal representation of commissioner Schundler when they were down there.

reality:
Since the latter half of this quote was proven false, is Christie now against the free market and the concept of "winners" and "losers" in the business world? Should everyone who applies for a grant get that grant? Is that how Christie believes money should be spent? Why did they deserve to be in 10th place when another state scored higher by providing more/better/accurate information?

lie 4:

I’m taking responsibility, commissioner Schundler’s taking responsibility and I’m not going to allow anybody to be scapegoated over this. You want to take shots? Take shots at me.

I never knew "I take responsibility" means "I blame Washington's lack of common sense by claiming they didn't ask about something they specifically did ask about."

(source (http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news/news/552010/approved/20100825b.html))

Re: timeline

[badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com]

He fired Bret Schundler after all.

He didn't fire him for the error, he fired him for lying to him (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/gov_chris_christie_asks_nj_sch.html). Quite different.

They did point out the error and ask for the correct numbers during the interview. Bret Schundler even tells Christie this yet Christine goes on a tirade about Washington not "getting it" and fart fart fart they have no common sense.

Not a lie. Washington did not allow for a repair on the error. Fart fart fart Washingtopn's being a douche.

Since the latter half of this quote was proven false, is Christie now against the free market and the concept of "winners" and "losers" in the business world? Should everyone who applies for a grant get that grant? Is that how Christie believes money should be spent? Why did they deserve to be in 10th place when another state scored higher by providing more/better/accurate information?

See above.

I never knew "I take responsibility" means "I blame Washington's lack of common sense by claiming they didn't ask about something they specifically did ask about."

So no lie. Got it. Fart fart fart.

Re: timeline

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

Bret Schundler showed emails to the press which pretty clearly disputes that claim.

Not a lie. Washington did not allow for a repair on the error. Fart fart fart Washingtopn's being a douche.

Why should Washington give extra time if the data is completely missing? They figured the data was just misplaced in the report. The data wasn't provided at all. Should they let NJ get a pass while expecting every other state to do their jobs?

You're in very strong denial mode. It's sad.

Re: timeline

[mylaptopisevil.livejournal.com]

More on Christie "taking responsibility":

You’ll have to ask the Obama administration if Ram Emanuel had a check box on this application. There wasn’t one that was evident. But I don’t know, and I certainly don’t want to impugn anybody’s motives in this, with no evidence, and I won’t do that. I observed that as well when I was looking at the state’s that got it. But I don’t want to drawl any conclusions to that, I think it would be inappropriate to do that. If you want to ask them, then ask them.

Taking responsibility, through the lens of Christie, means "I bet Rahm was involved in denying us a fair score, and by fair score I mean winning 10th place."