(no subject)

[drunken-leper.livejournal.com]

Comments

[goumindong.livejournal.com]

Being able to subsidize to the level that we do certianly means we have tons. Why? Beucase subsidies increase the quantity produced. Which means that we have enough land[because land is essentialy hard cap on production] to fuel such production.

The 2.3% number was based on THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF CURRENTLY USED LAND RIGHT NOW, AS IN THIS YEAR, we can substitute the ethanol for the natural gas and diesel for farm equipment and feedstock/fertilizer production.

The world has had grain shortages because developing nations cant produce at a profit because of... you guessed it, food subsidies in the U.S. being so strong they cant make money producing staple foods.

We have always had major battles over water rights in the midwest and west, we will always have major battles over water rights. That doesnt mean that we dont have a lot of arable land, it means we have shortage of water due to lots of production.

[goumindong.livejournal.com]

No, the basic thrust of the article is that the specific claim that the company was making was unlikly. It does not address any other claim, it does not go into capital costs of such ventures[though it does ask the question of what they would be]. But it does cite numbers that would be able to produce substantial biodiesel/ethanol using a fraction of the total land used for agriculture, and does not dispute these numbers

You then use this attack on an unrelated venture to state that ethanol and biodiesel are worthless. Which is a false dichotomy. It does not need to be perfect to be worthwhile, it just needs to be worthwhile.

Net energy gain on ethanol is perferable[not better, but preferable] to all forms of non-sustainable oil production as well it is very favorable when produced in a sustainable manner. Its carbon neutral, its domestic, its not controlled by monopoly/oligopoly interests, it can conform in production to market economies, and its not a natural resource you can fight over[not well at least]. As well, the major reason that ethanol production is so inefficient is because all agriculture production is terrible inefficient, about 100 times less efficient than it was in the 50s.


Your point that there are some basic constraints we are going to be working at is stupid because we are so far away from hitting those restraints that sensible policy can keep us away from the edges. There is literally no way we can even come close to using all the land unsustainably if we cut the subsidies.

And the reson that food prices have shot up recenty? Its not anything to due with shortages, its because the food is grown so damned far from your house, they have to ship it in. And those shipping costs increase as oil price rises. Localy produced food prices have remained very stable.