politicartoons | Religion is a mental illness

Religion is a mental illness

Photo: Orthodox Jewish Man Covers Himself In Plastic Bag On Plane

Why is he doing this? Don't read further. I'm telling you, you do not want to know...

We don't often see the classic Twin Peaks phrase "wrapped in plastic" taken so literally—but a Redditor posted the above photo of an Orthodox Jewish man who did just that on a recent flight. Poster "FinalSay" initially assumed the man was covering up because he was in front of women, but others pointed out that it is much more likely that the man is a "Kohen", who are holy priests (or descended from them).

Kohens are prohibited from flying over cemeteries ("A kohen initially was not supposed to approach any dead body, and if he did so he became ritually impure"), which as you can imagine, could be a major problem for travel. According to Haaretz, Rabbi Yosef Shalom Eliashiv, the leader of the Lithuanian Haredi community in Israel, "found a solution to this issue, ruling that wrapping oneself in thick plastic bags while the plane crossed over the cemetery is permissible."

Source: http://gothamist.com/2013/04/11/photo_orthodox_jewish_man_covers_hi.php

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you familiar with Jon Safron? You seen his exorcism video? Thoughts? (From one critic of religion to another, its a most curious and odd little thing that happens to him)

Curious and odd? Oh please.

Funny story. A priest in Jr High School claimed to have witness an exorcism, successful, and he told about 30 14 year olds that she floated up to the rafters of the church, lost her demons and fell to her death, but it was okay since she went to heaven. This is exorcism. I got scared figuring they killed the girl.

Its all show biz man.

I'm watching the episode now. So far the exorcist is a total quack.

PT Barnum would be proud. This is a joke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Cfphh7R9gH0#t=179s

Nothing "happens" to him other than some of his (and his exorcist) bad acting being filmed.

Edited 2013-04-12 15:21 (UTC)

You are unfamiiar with Jon Safron then.

I know people who are personally friends of his.
The man was, is, and remains, an ardent and vocal atheist.

There is no reason for Safron to act the way that the religious folks want/expect. He himself was shaken by the event. Still an atheist, but he admits its odd and he doesnt have an explanation.

There is no reason for Safron to act the way that the religious folks want/expect. He himself was shaken by the event. Still an atheist, but he admits its odd and he doesnt have an explanation.

Sounds legit.

Jus sayin'. If it is what it appears to be, how do we make sense of it? And I won't take "it was an exorcism" as an answer; if I did, I wouldn't be an atheist.

If I am to accept all was as presented, then I would place it somewhere into the spectra of mental illness.

I know people who know him too, the exorcism thing is genuine and it scared the shit out of him.

But notice how he didn't have a demon until the priests start putting him into intense situations. It's simple brainwashing and psychological manipulation, not boogy men.

And don't get me wrong. I am not saying this as a defense of exorcism or the exorcist. I think that if that man, the one who did the exorcism, met the Dalai Lama, they'd have a most interesting exchange, and clearly, the Dalai Lama is not being possessed by some demon, though the Christian exoricst may think he is.

The only thing about the Safron piece is that it's vastly out of character for Safron. Either we think he is faking it or we don't.

Faking it is the simple answer.

What if he wasn't? Just what if?
Cause from those I know who are his friends, they tell me he wasn't faking. So what then?

Dude. Its a television show. He is acting. He IS faking it. Period. There are NO SUCH THING as demons.

I can offer you footage of foaming schizophrenics which are far more convincing.

So you are discounting what I know from personal friends of his? I cannot stop you from believing that either:

a) I am lying about knowing a friend of his who says he wasnt faking it
b) his friend lied to me in saying he wasnt faking it
c) Safron lied to his friend about not faking it

But, me being who I am (an atheist, mind you) I do not think any of those things. I would certainly think things simpler, if those were the case. Since I do not believe those, I too am confused.

Let me ask you this: ever witness a really bad trip?

I have no reason to discount the personal comments other than their content, but yes, I will discount the inherent assertion that their are demons and I will 100% discount the existence of "possession".

a) I am lying about knowing a friend of his who says he wasnt faking it
b) his friend lied to me in saying he wasnt faking it
c) Safron lied to his friend about not faking it

All are irrelevant to me, and I didn't doubt you were telling the truth, my issue is that demons don't exist and possession isn't real.

Yeah, witnessed some bad trips. That's different from possession.

So I'm not positively asserting any claims about demons or possession or exorcism. I posing a question.

How do we interpret that if Safron was not acting?

Bad trips aren't possession. But we may have seen some different bad trips.

You know how sometimes somebody "isn't themselves" ? Well, if that happens normally, that is in a small scale way, we chaulk it up to stress, being tired or perhaps drugs. But when it happens dramatically, and without the assistance of drugs (although we cannot be certain of that. the exorcism did essentially "begin" when the exorcist put some liquid on his forehead, perhaps he was given a drug?) it is more difficult to describe why a person is "not themselves"

but we see this happen with drunks. people behave in a way that we say is not them.

Safron was behaving in a way that wasn't like him. His producer said so, tho, if we are being cynics he was also acting for the camera.

But again, if it wasn't faked, it presents a question. Not assertions about demons. Questions about humans and why we might behave like that.

My theory is either drugs or some version of mob mentality. Being in a room with 50 people shouting "out demon!" at you may have a bigger impact on an individuals mentality than we give credit to.

Surely you know of the experiments where 5 people in a room say what color a marker is. Four of these people are plants. They say the marker is green. The marker is actually blue, and all four of these people see that. But they say green. The fifth person, on occasion (that is, not 100% of subjects will, but a big enough percent that it makes us all go WTF?!) will say the marker is green.

And no, this isn't based on color-blindness or any such thing. It's based upon social pressures that exist, even without spoken word. The four people don't pressure the fifth to say it's green. They just declare that they see it as green.

Now, in the experiment with markers, the plants are deliberately lying. In the church however, parishoners may honestly believe in demons, even though you and I believe they are mistaken.
So the "plants" are not being dishonest, and are even being very passionate in their desire for a beter you.

Not to mention, the powerful figurative property that "inner demons" have in our culture. Even the atheist cannot escape the metaphor of having inner demons that stem from our nuerological and personal quirks. The inner demons of an atheist are little different from that of the religious; we are all human and feel powerful emotions, for good or bad. We can recognize our personal demons and want to cast them out, all the same, even if we don't believe in anything more than the physical.

And I'll be damned, I've spewed out far more on that video than I thought I would.

Can you tell, it's had an impact on me? (again, not a conversion impact, but an inquiry)

First, thanks for putting so much energy into this, that was a lot to type!

The fifth person, on occasion (that is, not 100% of subjects will, but a big enough percent that it makes us all go WTF?!) will say the marker is green.

Wow. That's actually news to me. It sorta aligns with Milgram's work.

I see the metaphor. And am not immune.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

I believe that this has been re-produced, results wise, using colored markers. I may have been mistaken, but that is how I recall the experiment. But this was the easy first-hit that can explain, with more detail, how it works. (Well, how the experiment works)

And one thing I just learned about this, but isn't terribly surprising is:

"Asch examined whether the presence of a "true partner" influenced level of conformity.[1][3] This partner was also a "real" participant or another actor that was told to give the correct response to each question. This decreased the level of conformity, especially when the partner was instructed to give correct responses"

If you watch the whole series, it would be really out of context for him to fake this and would actually harm his overall narrative. It's amazing what you can make the human mind do when you deprive of sleep, food, water and then put it in stressful situations.

Sorry. Not buying it.

think that if that man, the one who did the exorcism, met the Dalai Lama, they'd have a most interesting exchange

Well, that's only because the current Dali Lama is most wise. That other dude is deluded at best or a charlatan at worst.

By the way, don't get me wrong, I'm only taking issue with that agnosticism pertaining to the exorcism. The other stuff you offered about the Cohen's was informative and most appreciated.

Edited 2013-04-12 15:57 (UTC)

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