yes, i can tell you that. and i can also tell you that its easy to access such info, i have no special ins that allowed me to discover it.
so, you may not care about NYS politics, but the NYS senate hangs in the balance because of the third party votes in several races.
in rochester, for mayor, the dem got 49%, the WF (working families) candidate pulled 42%, while the green candidate pulled the remainder. this was the 2011 special election for mayor, where duffy went to work for cuomo, and the dem machine chose a corporat dem. thw WF ran their own candidate and damn near won
My point was that there are plenty of third party candidates for President in most states (there were, iirc, a half dozen in NJ last go round) but they don't really accomplish anything. Most don't even get to be spoilers. Even Nader, with significant Republican support, couldn't really serve as a spoiler in 2000 or 2004.
so, you may not care about NYS politics, but the NYS senate hangs in the balance because of the third party votes in several races.
And that would suck if that balance swung to the GOP and they managed to overturn some of the progress the NY Legislature did last session. Sadly, it seems that is the result the supposedly Democratic Governor of NY wants.
in rochester, for mayor, the dem got 49%, the WF (working families) candidate pulled 42%, while the green candidate pulled the remainder. this was the 2011 special election for mayor, where duffy went to work for cuomo, and the dem machine chose a corporat dem. thw WF ran their own candidate and damn near won
I'm not really talking about local races. Local races often have their own special characteristics. If a local party wants to make a name for itself in local politics and then eventually aim for bigger and better things then more power to them, in fact that was what I was suggesting from the beginning.
And if WF wanted to eventually supplant the Democratic Party in NY, and become the de facto left wing party in that state, I'd applaud them just as I applaud DFL, especially since the Democratic Party in NY seems a bit dysfunctional at least on the state level.
Wow, that's clever, did you come up with that on your own?
if you cant understand that, i have nowhere to go in this debate with you.
You'll find that condescension does not get you very far with me.
My point has always been about third parties that run candidates for nationwide office, President specifically, without doing the groundwork of running local candidates first. i wasn't talking about your pet third parties like DFL (which isn't even really a third party) and WF. I'd hate to think you're getting your pants in a knot just because you don't understand my point.
im sorry you are focused on the president and not on the immense impact that local offices hold. your wasting your time if you think a third party will leap on the national stage in a single bound. start small and build bigger. thats how its done.
It's like you're not hearing my words. Look back and see what I said to madscience. I have no problem with third parties that "start small and build bigger", in fact, that was my entire suggestion for what third parties should do in the first place. My problem is with parties like the Greens who constantly run people for President without concentrating on local elections first to build up a base of support. Since we seem to be in agreement, and have from the start, I think we should stop here before we waste more words.
Then you simply haven't been paying attention to what the Greens have been up to. They have more members holding local offices than any other third party.
I'm not interested in what they're doing on a local level. I'm interested in their insistence on running candidates for President when they know they have no shot and can only serve as a spoiler. If you disagree, go right ahead. We've already established that you don't care about the actual outcome of the election, or its effect on the country, and only care about feeling morally superior to those of us who understand how the system works.
ALL, i repeat, ALL politics is local. if you cant understand that, i have nowhere to go in this debate with you.
All politics is local? Bull. Your NYC politics and problems have zero effect (and zero interest) to people living in my state. It's simply unimportant to us.
thats false. nyc, and by extent NYS do impact your local politics.
so, when NYS raised its min wage in 05, the federal govt raised min wage shortly after. its hard to prove, but its not impossible to say there was an effect. similarly, when NYS started issuing full fledged marriage licenses to gay couples, several other states, de facto, recognize gay marriage, since they honor, in full, any out of state marriage license.
washington and colorado legalizing pot WILL have an effect, throughout the country, regarding pot laws.
thats false. nyc, and by extent NYS do impact your local politics.
You can't name a single one that affects me down here in GA.
so, when NYS raised its min wage in 05, the federal govt raised min wage shortly after. its hard to prove, but its not impossible to say there was an effect.
I actually WOULD need that proved, because correlation is not causation and raising the minimum wage, period, was a hot issue that year promoted by both parties.
similarly, when NYS started issuing full fledged marriage licenses to gay couples, several other states, de facto, recognize gay marriage, since they honor, in full, any out of state marriage license.
Sorry to say, not here in GA. And we won't. That's already been made clear by our state government.
washington and colorado legalizing pot WILL have an effect, throughout the country, regarding pot laws.
Again, not here in GA. Pot laws and enforcement are going to remain as is.
You might argue that what a liberally-aligned state does will have ripple effects in other states/areas of the same type and have a point, but you are not arguing that. At all. So c'mon, point out to me a thing that y'all up there in NY did that has us Georgians going "Look what they did up there! We're gonna do that too."
You start out in federal district court and then appeal it all the way up. No, I do not consider issues of constitutionality to be "local" politics.
watchtower v sutton.
WTF is this? There's no such case. Or are you talking about Watchtower Society vs Village of Stratton? Which had no effect at all here in GA because we didn't have any local ordinances of that type.
240,000 people voted row D for kristen gillibrand. thats not an insignificant chunk of votes. for her it wasnt the margin of victory, but third parties are routinely fucked by the two big parties.
tell me this, do you know the name of the two big parties in Minnesota? tell me why the dems are the DFL.
Kristen Gillibrand is the Democratic candidate. Not sure it matters which row they vote for her on. She won either way.
I am familiar enough with the DFL to know they function as the Democratic Party in their state and aren't exactly the same as a third party (hard to be a spoiler when your candidates are the de facto Democratic candidates).
If people who are disillusioned with the two party system want to take over their preferred party in their state and call it something else, more power to them.
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madscience.livejournal.com) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
politicartoons2012-12-22 08:04 pm
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look at the four biggest parties in ny state. rows a-d on the ballot.
democrat
repub
conservative
working families
(greens jus recently got their line back)
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so, you may not care about NYS politics, but the NYS senate hangs in the balance because of the third party votes in several races.
in rochester, for mayor, the dem got 49%, the WF (working families) candidate pulled 42%, while the green candidate pulled the remainder. this was the 2011 special election for mayor, where duffy went to work for cuomo, and the dem machine chose a corporat dem. thw WF ran their own candidate and damn near won
no subject
so, you may not care about NYS politics, but the NYS senate hangs in the balance because of the third party votes in several races.
And that would suck if that balance swung to the GOP and they managed to overturn some of the progress the NY Legislature did last session. Sadly, it seems that is the result the supposedly Democratic Governor of NY wants.
in rochester, for mayor, the dem got 49%, the WF (working families) candidate pulled 42%, while the green candidate pulled the remainder. this was the 2011 special election for mayor, where duffy went to work for cuomo, and the dem machine chose a corporat dem. thw WF ran their own candidate and damn near won
I'm not really talking about local races. Local races often have their own special characteristics. If a local party wants to make a name for itself in local politics and then eventually aim for bigger and better things then more power to them, in fact that was what I was suggesting from the beginning.
And if WF wanted to eventually supplant the Democratic Party in NY, and become the de facto left wing party in that state, I'd applaud them just as I applaud DFL, especially since the Democratic Party in NY seems a bit dysfunctional at least on the state level.
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if you cant understand that, i have nowhere to go in this debate with you.
diff between DFL and WF is that WF isnt about to fold into the dems.
i dont know if minnesota has fusion voting, like NY does.
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Wow, that's clever, did you come up with that on your own?
if you cant understand that, i have nowhere to go in this debate with you.
You'll find that condescension does not get you very far with me.
My point has always been about third parties that run candidates for nationwide office, President specifically, without doing the groundwork of running local candidates first. i wasn't talking about your pet third parties like DFL (which isn't even really a third party) and WF. I'd hate to think you're getting your pants in a knot just because you don't understand my point.
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your wasting your time if you think a third party will leap on the national stage in a single bound.
start small and build bigger. thats how its done.
wf is doing just that.
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if you cant understand that, i have nowhere to go in this debate with you.
All politics is local? Bull. Your NYC politics and problems have zero effect (and zero interest) to people living in my state. It's simply unimportant to us.
no subject
nyc, and by extent NYS do impact your local politics.
so, when NYS raised its min wage in 05, the federal govt raised min wage shortly after.
its hard to prove, but its not impossible to say there was an effect.
similarly, when NYS started issuing full fledged marriage licenses to gay couples, several other states, de facto, recognize gay marriage, since they honor, in full, any out of state marriage license.
washington and colorado legalizing pot WILL have an effect, throughout the country, regarding pot laws.
politics is local. there are lots of locals.
no subject
nyc, and by extent NYS do impact your local politics.
You can't name a single one that affects me down here in GA.
so, when NYS raised its min wage in 05, the federal govt raised min wage shortly after.
its hard to prove, but its not impossible to say there was an effect.
I actually WOULD need that proved, because correlation is not causation and raising the minimum wage, period, was a hot issue that year promoted by both parties.
similarly, when NYS started issuing full fledged marriage licenses to gay couples, several other states, de facto, recognize gay marriage, since they honor, in full, any out of state marriage license.
Sorry to say, not here in GA. And we won't. That's already been made clear by our state government.
washington and colorado legalizing pot WILL have an effect, throughout the country, regarding pot laws.
Again, not here in GA. Pot laws and enforcement are going to remain as is.
You might argue that what a liberally-aligned state does will have ripple effects in other states/areas of the same type and have a point, but you are not arguing that. At all. So c'mon, point out to me a thing that y'all up there in NY did that has us Georgians going "Look what they did up there! We're gonna do that too."
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watchtower v sutton.
federal law, biznitch.
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You start out in federal district court and then appeal it all the way up.
No, I do not consider issues of constitutionality to be "local" politics.
watchtower v sutton.
WTF is this? There's no such case.
Or are you talking about Watchtower Society vs Village of Stratton? Which had no effect at all here in GA because we didn't have any local ordinances of that type.
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thats not an insignificant chunk of votes. for her it wasnt the margin of victory, but third parties are routinely fucked by the two big parties.
tell me this, do you know the name of the two big parties in Minnesota? tell me why the dems are the DFL.
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I am familiar enough with the DFL to know they function as the Democratic Party in their state and aren't exactly the same as a third party (hard to be a spoiler when your candidates are the de facto Democratic candidates).
If people who are disillusioned with the two party system want to take over their preferred party in their state and call it something else, more power to them.
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the DFL is the DFL because third parties existed, mattered and the dems wanted in.
third parties wont grow as long as they have some sorta stigma attatched. but the two party system is NOT good for the people