politicartoons | (no subject)

i didn't conclude that israel doesn't have the right to exist, merely that palestinians do.

i don't know why every israel argument is framed in terms of "right to exist" as though i'm trying to ceremoniously wish away the other side. merig and i theoretically both believe in a two-state solution, the primary difference between us is that he doesn't care how it happens.

i don't know why every israel argument is framed in terms of "right to exist"
Mostly because some countries and 3 out 4 major fractions in palestine do not recognize Israel.

I do care... it's just taht I see only two ways how it could happen:

1)Israel unilaterally pulls out of West Bank and lifts blockade of Gaza. Palestinians still don't recognize Israel. They take it as their win and increase the number of attacks. Israel retaliates and we are back to square one.

2. Arab nations and palestinians recognize the State of Israel. They work out the exact borders in 1968 position. Everyone lives happily ever after or at least they pretend so.

Which one is more realistic to you? Do you have any your own view?

you seem to be forgetting israel's insistence that palestinians accept israel as a pure jewish state and live as citizens with curtailed rights.

see the last proposal for just such a thing.

wait there are palestinians in Palestine and israeli arabs in Israel.

the two-state solution isn't even on the table is what i'm getting at

israel is basically going "with us or against us"

If tomorrow palestinians recognize Israel and agree to the 1968 borders and probably even shared Jerusalem, Israel most probably will agree to it.

My apologies, I was confused by your phrasing when it came to "not supporting" Israel. I guess you meant not supporting their actions rather than not supporting their right to their state. My bad for misreading.

But part of the reason Israel arguments get framed that way is the fact that there has been opposition to their existence as a state since day one. There are still many nations who refuse to "recognize" Israel as an actual country, and the idea that they have no right to exist isn't totally fringe or laughable.

which is valid when addressing criticism from, say, iran.

the internet has yet to recognize me as a muslim state.

well maybe you share Iran's view on the issue :)

i forgot that all us liberals love ahmadinejad

like that time we

I should have probably bolded ":)"

But you could choose from any of these countries:

Africa: Algeria, Chad, Comoros, Djibouti, Guinea, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Somalia, Sudan, Tunisia.
Americas: Bolivia, Cuba, Venezuela
East Asia: Taiwan, North Korea
Middle East: Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, United Arab Emirates.
South, Central Asia: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Pakistan.
Southeast Asia: Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia

off the very top of my head indonesia was the first muslim state to recognize israel sooo...

Nope... you are probably confusing it with Micronesia which has very close ties with Israel.

Only three members of the Arab League have normalized relations with Israel; Egypt and Jordan signed peace treaties in 1979 and 1994, respectively, and Mauritania opted for full diplomatic relations with Israel in 1999. Israel also has diplomatic relations with Morocco.

Yeah, but that's why it's not necessarily tin-foil-hat-y to assume that if someone is really really critical of Israel, they may well be opposed to its status as a country. The discourse has become so polarized and all.