politicartoons | (no subject)

Funny how so many people (including my fellow libs, in this case) are so quick to forget and/or dismiss history.

witch part?

The part about Israel being under constant attack since the date of her birth, and the part about how the Egyptians, Jordanians, and the rest of the Arab world basically left the Palestinians out to rot.

see, i rember at least half that (intresting as most of it is now outside my life time). israil has also been the blegerent at least once (suze) tho im not denying that its nabours have, untill recently, been trying very hard to see the end of israil.

the palastian side im less up on tho.

It's a clusterfuck seen from any angle (and yes - both sides have committed abominable crimes against humanity), but I find myself favoring Israel in most cases, considering the fact the entire region wants her wiped off the map.

Just my (unpopular - at least in liberal circles) two cents. :)

It's not about kicking out the civilians. It's about allowing Palestinians free movement and rights in/return to their homeland and curtailing the ridiculous behaviour of the state. I don't see how that can be interpreted as "wiping Israel off the map."

only after Cherokees are allowed to return to their homeland

Hey, I agree with you on First Nations rights. That's why the Palestianian human rights movement operates in solidarity with First Nations activists.

That was sarcasm. And unlike Cherokees arabs lost most of those lands in the wars they instigated

but the movement to get land back isnt for the arab states, its for palastine, the state witch was displaced by the new israil. arab states no doubt want there land back, but there has not been any signifcant arab/israil wars in years now. witch is not to say there wont be, but to say that palastine certently isnt the party here instagting wars to lose land.

From 1947 to 1967 the West Bank was under control of Jordan, palestinians there were even given jordanian passports. In 1967 during the war jordan lost those territories to israel.

true, but the gaza strip was lost to israil dureing the suze war, witch was a war of israilie (and british, and french) agresion. and as mentioned befor, the palastians havent been given the warmest of welcoms anywhere, not to mention current conditions in the strip and the bank are pritty shit, by any standered, witch is a result of israily polcys towards those areas at the moment.

That's why Gaza was never annexed.

I believe that the Palestinians should have a homeland. That does not negate the fact that nearly all of Israel's neighbors feel she has no right to exist and - given their way - would have her wiped off the map. To believe anything else (especially with Google at your fingertips) is either willfully ignorant or stone-cold stupid.

P.S. It also does not negate the fact that the Palestinians have been used as blood-soaked pawns by the other Arab nations for generations. They were regional "outcasts" long before Israel even came into existence. Some of the things Israel has done to them are absolutely abominable, but they're hardly original sins. Do some research if you care to. Or not. Makes no difference to me.

I'm not speaking to those politics. I'm referring to how you are lumping people who are on the liberal end of the spectrum in there. The majority of liberal-minded people who support the Palestinian cause from here simply want Palestinian human rights. I think the destinction is important.

It's all words... play out this scenario... Israel pulls out from West Bank and cuts off any relationship with P.A. not a blockade just close it's borders. And lifts blockade of Gaza but keeping the borders locked... What's going to happen?

P.S. As I was typing that I just got the news that FBI arrested several people who were planning to send weapons and ammunition to Hizbollah from USA. Yes it's a bit different issue but one could assume there are plenty of attempts to smuggle weapons into West Bank as well

Hizbollah and Hamas apologists would call that "righteously arming the outmanned, outgunned freedom fighters."

More's the pity, as violence begets violence.

I think that if you look a little deeper (both here and in some of the other political comms), you'll find a distinct anti-Israel tone in general among liberals.

Keep in mind that I am, for the most part, a liberal myself, and I too believe in Palestinian human rights, but there are two sides to every story, as I've alluded to previously. Israel, in many cases, has been just as victimized as the Palestinian people since her birth. All too often I see the Israelis referred to as "murderers," "baby-killers, "terrorists" and worse, usually by people who have no clue about her bloody and violent history.

It's a historical/political music chairs game

I agree.