Its overly simplistic to just say people shouldn't paid money they don't have (as a general principal they shouldn't) but life its like that. If your car breaks down or your roof springs a leak then you pretty much don't have a choice but to spend the money to fix it, and sometimes this means going into debt with the Visa. you need a car to go to work and keep your job, you need shelter etc. My girlfriend for example had a choice of going into debt or not buying the books she needed for college and failing out. She's debt free currently but ending up paying off way more what was fair.
Once you're in debt the interest rates are designed to bend you over and fuck you up the ass. Plus they way our economy is set up, you're just short of required to own a credit card. Try renting an apartment or buying a car without credit.
To be fair, it really isn't that difficult to file bankruptcy these days either. The big change has been that people HAVE to go through credit counseling first (and it's really a formality), and they have to file a lot more paperwork, etc.
What does this mean? It means that it will likely cost you about $1500 with a lawyer and $100 with a credit counseling company to go bankrupt. However, if you actually need bankruptcy protection, it's still available. As it should be. Bankruptcy is one of the few programs out there that is actually a legitimate second chance without an easy way to exploit it.
At the same time, the terms of credit contracts are greatly in the favor of these companies, and they depend on their clients (like me) not fully understanding the terms of those contracts.
I also feel like they don't fully assume the risk of loaning money to the clients they target. The poor are a terrible credit risk, like you said. But they target them anyway, because it's difficult to file a bankruptcy, and relatively easy to hound people with collections agencies, and employment, obtaining shelter, buying large items without cash-in-hand is very hard to do without credit, which you need to assume debt to obtain. The same power arrangement and level of responsibility demanded does not exist in reverse.
This. Very much this.
So yeah, while credit companies operate within the letter of the law, I think they are sleazy as hell for some of their tactics.
Of course they operate within the law. They WROTE the law.
I currently do not have a credit card, and bad credit due to that bankruptcy I mentioned, and I live in an apartment just fine. I had to have a co-signer the first year, but no problem renewing after that. I'd imagine something similar would have to happen with loans
You had the good fortune to know someone else who had good credit and collateral for that guarantor agreement.
obviously in my example "fair" is a subjective term i can't prove with facts what is and isn't fair anymore than i can prove red is a better color than blue.
i think the grand total of college expenses than went on the credit card were in the $5,000 and she spend in the neighborhood of $7,000 to remove the debt.
Because sending people who make $12,000 a year preapproved VISA cards with $6000 limits on them is a right, not a privilege. When it's blatantly obvious you're lending money to someone who's not ever going to be able to pay it back, here's an idea, don't lend them any money. (Then of course they sue you for discriminating against whatever minority they can claim to be.)
It's easy to say "don't take the money" but there's people out there who, as noted elsethread, have to use the credit to pay a doctor or an auto repairman or they're in deep shit.
I pay my bills on time (and well over the minimum) and don't have a large balance. Yet 3 times in the last year, my credit card company jacked up my interest rate (I'm at like 26% now!). This is working to ensure I never will fully pay off the remaining balance.
Below, as a reply to my above comment, dwer sarcastically wrote "in Bruceenstein's world, people have to be responsible, but corporations don't."
And, I'm sorry, but that does often seem to be the libertarian or conservative attitude. They expect the average Joe to somehow be experts in finance contracts and mortgage details, so that they could be more aware of the banks and corporations that are ripping us all off... but they don't demand any decency or accountability from said banks or corporations. Because... hey, that's the "free market" and the free market is sacred?
People on the other hand? Well, they're all dumb hedonists. Fuck 'em.
No, of course I didn't read my credit card contract. No one does. But I made the mistake of believing that I was a good consumer-- paying my bills on time, and in decent amounts, don't keep high balances, etc-- that I would be fine. That was my mistake. Because my bank screwed me over anyway.
Personally, I would love to get rid of credit cards all together... rob the banks of their #1 way of enriching themselves while driving more Americans into poverty. Of course, I'd ideally like to be able to pass a put a cap on corporate profits, while increasing wages across the board and ending outsourcing and tax shelters etc, and I know that's about as realistic as expecting to wake up with a washboard stomach tomorrow.
For the record, I am not charging up TVs and iPhones and cars and vacations. My TV is 20 inches and about 10 years old. I live a very lean life. For the most part, what is on my card is my utility bills and my groceries and clothing purchases and some medical bills and non-extrazagant stuff like that.
But now in America you can work a full-time job and still incur serious debt just for living a normal life. That is our fault to our extent, but not mostly. Mostly, it's the fault of the powers-that-be who decided it was okay to increase the cost of living exponentially while holding wages down and outsourcing jobs, and that questioning that is bad because we apparently all should be happy as long as banks and corporations are posting high profits.
That's not capitalism. That's corporatism, and that's very bad for democracy.
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dwer.livejournal.com) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
politicartoons2009-10-12 02:48 pm
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Once you're in debt the interest rates are designed to bend you over and fuck you up the ass. Plus they way our economy is set up, you're just short of required to own a credit card. Try renting an apartment or buying a car without credit.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Lucky for you that happened before the bankruptcy rules were changed.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
What does this mean? It means that it will likely cost you about $1500 with a lawyer and $100 with a credit counseling company to go bankrupt. However, if you actually need bankruptcy protection, it's still available. As it should be. Bankruptcy is one of the few programs out there that is actually a legitimate second chance without an easy way to exploit it.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Personally, I prefer Ninja Turtles.
Re: Personally, I prefer Ninja Turtles.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
of these companies, and they depend on their clients (like me) not fully
understanding the terms of those contracts.
I also feel like they don't fully assume the risk of loaning money to the
clients they target. The poor are a terrible credit risk, like you said.
But they target them anyway, because it's difficult to file a bankruptcy,
and relatively easy to hound people with collections agencies, and
employment, obtaining shelter, buying large items without cash-in-hand is
very hard to do without credit, which you need to assume debt to obtain.
The same power arrangement and level of responsibility demanded does not
exist in reverse.
This. Very much this.
So yeah, while credit companies operate within the letter of the law, I think they are sleazy as hell for some of their tactics.
Of course they operate within the law. They WROTE the law.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
You had the good fortune to know someone else who had good credit and collateral for that guarantor agreement.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
i think the grand total of college expenses than went on the credit card were in the $5,000 and she spend in the neighborhood of $7,000 to remove the debt.
What do I think would be fair? 5,800 to 6,000.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Also, here's an idea: don't take the money.
Re: Also, here's an idea: don't take the money.
Re: Also, here's an idea: don't take the money.
Re: Also, here's an idea: don't take the money.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
I don't think any democrat would suggest that credit is a right.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
How is that fair? How is that my responsibility?
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
And, I'm sorry, but that does often seem to be the libertarian or conservative attitude. They expect the average Joe to somehow be experts in finance contracts and mortgage details, so that they could be more aware of the banks and corporations that are ripping us all off... but they don't demand any decency or accountability from said banks or corporations. Because... hey, that's the "free market" and the free market is sacred?
People on the other hand? Well, they're all dumb hedonists. Fuck 'em.
No, of course I didn't read my credit card contract. No one does. But I made the mistake of believing that I was a good consumer-- paying my bills on time, and in decent amounts, don't keep high balances, etc-- that I would be fine. That was my mistake. Because my bank screwed me over anyway.
Personally, I would love to get rid of credit cards all together... rob the banks of their #1 way of enriching themselves while driving more Americans into poverty. Of course, I'd ideally like to be able to pass a put a cap on corporate profits, while increasing wages across the board and ending outsourcing and tax shelters etc, and I know that's about as realistic as expecting to wake up with a washboard stomach tomorrow.
For the record, I am not charging up TVs and iPhones and cars and vacations. My TV is 20 inches and about 10 years old. I live a very lean life. For the most part, what is on my card is my utility bills and my groceries and clothing purchases and some medical bills and non-extrazagant stuff like that.
But now in America you can work a full-time job and still incur serious debt just for living a normal life. That is our fault to our extent, but not mostly. Mostly, it's the fault of the powers-that-be who decided it was okay to increase the cost of living exponentially while holding wages down and outsourcing jobs, and that questioning that is bad because we apparently all should be happy as long as banks and corporations are posting high profits.
That's not capitalism. That's corporatism, and that's very bad for democracy.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.
Re: Yep, that sounds like democrats.