politicartoons | (no subject)

the post office is a HUGE success story for government.

it has a monopoly on first-class mail. and has been heavily subsidized

Through price or by law?

by law.

Hmmm. Knowing zip about the implications, I'd be all for lifting that ban.

it actually has it's foundations in the constitution.

article 1, sec 8 gives congress the power to establish post offices.

Is the exclusive to 1st class mail in the constitution?

no, but congress has interpreted it to mean that.

If what you're saying is true, then Obama's point is made. The private competitors are so able to compete they're beating the government option even though it's playing with a handicap. If there wasn't a regulated option then the private companies could do what they want, how they want it regardless of those who could afford it. Capitalism that eventually chokes Democracy. So i'm sold. Public option. Lets do this.

Oh yeah, the post office was a huge success after they used the power of government to force out their early competition, has used eminent domain to obtain its properties and has been subsidized in lots of other ways over the years:

Early competitor forced out of business:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company

A transcription of a 1996 plea to privatize the post office, complete with a graph that shows the billion in subsidies the government gave the post office in the 1980's:
http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-eh043096.html

I am sorry but if this is your idea of a "great success", a company that cannot compete and needs billion in subsidies to survive, what is your idea of a failure?

In case you don't believe me about the post office using the power of eminent domain (forcing people to sell or outright stealing peoples property), maybe you would believe the supreme courts ruling in POSTAL SERVICE V. FLAMINGO INDUSTRIES:

Under the PRA, the Postal Service retains its monopoly over the carriage of letters, and the power to authorize postal inspectors to search for, seize, and forfeit mail matter transported in violation of the monopoly. See §§601—606. It also retains the obligation to provide universal service to all parts of the country. §§101, 403. The Postal Service has the power of eminent domain, the power to make postal regulations, and the power to enter international postal agreements subject to the supervision of the Secretary of State.

Edited 2009-10-06 00:03 (UTC)

..and yet with all that help UPS and fed ex are able to survive and prosper.

Fixed it for you:

..and yet without help UPS and fed ex are able to survive and prosper. So it is ridiculous that the USPS cannot.

Yes, but the argument is that a public option will not kill private insurance, but it might lower costs across the board by existing.

We were talking about the post office, but since you insist on turning this into a health insurance debate I should point out that the "public option" is a give to the insurance companies. It is just like Medicare, it moves the unprofitable segments of the population to the burden of the tax-payers and leaves the profitable segments of the population for the insurance companies to profit off of.

"The government can fix health care"yadda,yadda,yadda.

And to your response: yadda, yadda, yadda.

keep tightening that clamp, fester.

I never said it was a company. I said it was a successful government agency. I'm sure the DoD forced out private mercenary companies early on too.

Still. 250 years of consistent operation, even when it had to compete with UPS and FedEx and DHL. Consistently paid a good wage to people. Provided benefits. All good.

Failure? Enron. Enron would be a failure.

Enron wouldn't have failed either if they had gotten bailed out as many times as the USPS.

Enron wouldn't have failed had the executive officers not been crooks.

That is true, now the company doesn't exist. Unfortunately the post office still exists even though it was also ran by crooks, thanks to government officials stealing money from tax payers and bailing them out, year after year after year.

oh, bullshit.

From Wikipedia:

the USPS's first incarnation was established by Benjamin Franklin in Philadelphia in 1775 by decree of the Second Continental Congress. The Post Office Department was created from this in 1792 as part of the United States Cabinet, its current form in 1970 under the Postal Reorganization Act.

Since its reorganization in to an independent organization, the USPS has become self-sufficient and has not received taxpayer-dollars since the early 1980s. The decline of mail volume due to increased usage of e-mail has forced the postal service to look to other sources of revenue while cutting costs to maintain this financial balance.

When it was not an independent agency, it received tax-payer dollars. So does the fucking DOD, are they crooks too?

Christ.